Cruzz's Fantasy Patch Thread 2: WTFWFA Edition

regarding BARs and M1919s

They are not any stronger than other infantry weapons, I do not see why. M1919 is getting nerfed in terms of not being able to grab two on a single squad, I think that's plenty enough.

...

I do not consider BARs as overperforming...

I defintely consider US lmg upgrades superior to "other infantry weapons", for example I would pick BARs or M1919s over PPSHs every single time if I had the option (all costs included). The ost lmg upgrade on grens is imo comparable but at least there is only 1 lmg on a 4 man squad. However I would welcome all lmg upgrades (BARs, M1919s, LMG42s) on basic (BASIC! i.e. not elite) infantry toned down, as it makes the basic infantry too good imo.

We`ll just have to disagree on this one, which is fine of course.

BTW: I have to say Milka raised some very valid points/concerns, interesting...

I want to thank you Cruzz, for starting a thread that had enough thought and content to not be derailed by faction fanboys/trolls immediately.

In response to the suggestions I don't have enough knowledge to agree or refute point by point. However, I would say that there is nothing in here to address the global over-performance of long range infantry: LMGs of all types have been made so fantastic since the cover system has been revamped.

I am curious what you think about the above situation. In my opinion I think we need a bit of a long range dmg nerf across the board. The idea being to make close-range infantry more viable and hopefully also solve the problem of obers or paras constantly wiping the firing model of a gun crew.

As always, a good overall post.

USF:
Rear echelons: i think it´s part of the faction design that they don´t have mines. But i don´t see with bad eyes if this changes are intended to make RE a viable to unit to make.

Zooks: either 1 of the 2 changes. Not both.

Dodge: i would rather see it at 1CP rather than tweaking the cost.

SU:
-I would love seeing T70 and Su76 swap.
-I would rather see a performance tweak on the Penals rather than giving Cons plain upgrades

OH:
-...

OKW
-MG34 could use a cost increase to 240 but not as high as 270.
-I guess the MP change on Panzerfusiliers is to take into account their obvious upgrade later to G43s and cost performance.


What´s your opinion on:
-Swapping T70 and Su76
-Performance of units with upgrades. For example: i see that giving 2 LMGs to Obers would both "normalize" it´s DPS while also increase the risk of dropping.
-Stug G role as semi AI/AT.

I don't have a problem with any of these changes but I think it's kind of a lot to go changing all at once.

some good changes, but i would like to add some things:

-pathfinding fixed on everything
-squad-ai bunching up fixed
-lags fixed
-performance improved

some of this stuff kills me more than enemy units

and i personally think, that grenadiers are a little bit too weak, but a little bit too strong with the lmg42

Dodge: i would rather see it at 1CP rather than tweaking the cost.

Problem is, the dodge rush is kinda the only thing the commander has going for it. At 1cp it'll just be a super bad M20 instead, which kinda removes the point unless you seriously think there is enough of value in getting a cheap light vehicle with captain to warrant a commander.

OKW
-MG34 could use a cost increase to 240 but not as high as 270.

To be honest I'd rather just make it a carbon copy of the MG42 for 240MP, but I assume Relic wants to give it some kind of flavor statwise so doubt it would happen so I just picked the higher price point.

-I guess the MP change on Panzerfusiliers is to take into account their obvious upgrade later to G43s and cost performance.

Manpower cost increases are an easy way to deter spamming a million squads. And yes the manpower price is mostly trying to balance out the G43 fusiliers rather than the unupgraded ones. And the fact a 6 man axis squad never dies.

What´s your opinion on:
-Swapping T70 and Su76

I think swapping SU76 and T70 opens too big a can of worms especially in T4. SU85 AT coupled with T70 AI+scouting is a really, really scary thought on more open maps.

I like most of them as well, nice list.

agree to 99%

I have literally bothered to sign as apposed to lurk, in order to +1 these suggestions. It's just depressing reading these notes, booting up the game and then realising it's just a fantasy patch

I like the vast majority of the suggestions, but I do think it changes too much stuff at the same time. Big batches of changes are nice in theory, but some could create further imbalances down the line. I'd settle for about half the list, then see where things go from there. Even half of these changes would probably change the meta in a big way.

If these were the actual patchnotes I would have been suprised that the Ostheer T1 remains unchanged.

If these were the actual patchnotes I would have been suprised that the Ostheer T1 remains unchanged.

Never occurred to you that it wasn't changed, because its actually balanced the way it is?

Unshavenbackman russian and osheer early game saw so many patches before that these are actually most ballanced parts of coh2, we don't need to change them, we need to adjust usf and okw early game to be ballanced against vanilla factions more.

Is this thread a joke? I already highlighted the ridiculous discepencies in balance for US and Soviets and you now want to buff them further?

Cruzz you only play soviets anyhow. THis thread is beyond Biased.

People will never play this game again, its already almost at the tipping point with OH and OKW. There is no way in a 50-50 match that OKW can beat soviets atm. As seen by Jesulin vs Barton. OH is already ridiculously UP vs US.

BUFF MAXIM suppression? WHAT? LOL

Terrible thread.

Is this thread a joke? I already highlighted the ridiculous discepencies in balance for US and Soviets and you now want to buff them further?

Cruzz you only play soviets anyhow. THis thread is beyond Biased.

People will never play this game again, its already almost at the tipping point with OH and OKW. There is no way in a 50-50 match that OKW can beat soviets atm. As seen by Jesulin vs Barton. OH is already ridiculously UP vs US.

Terrible thread.

Are you for real?

Seriously, tell me. Because if so, I would like to know so I can skip your comments from now on.

Are you for real?

Seriously, tell me. Because if so, I would like to know so I can skip your comments from now on.

Your stats seem to suggest you play soviets heavily. Please try to be open minded.

This thread calls for Soviet and US buffs with barely any change to OKW or OH. he doesnt even address OH T4 no viability and asks to increase maxim supression with only a 40MP cost increase. He doesnt even address the disccrepency in OKW HT vs US AA HT (A game breaking unit vs OH). Nor does he address PGs and Assault grens being practically extinct.

"MG34 cost to 270MP
Move puma smoke to vet2"

The two points that i completely was at shock from where these two. Thats when i completely disregarded everything in his post.


Maxim spam is already breaking the game and this guy wants to buff it further by merely waiting an extra 5-6 seconds for that extra 40 MP.

This shows he is ridiculously biased.

Cruzz you only play soviets anyhow. THis thread is beyond Biased.

The only one who is coming off as extremely biased here is yourself.

You can even see a game where Cruzz plays OKW vs Soviets on two video highlights on the front page of this website. So no. He doesn't "just play Soviets".

Cruzz suggests buffing Maxim AOE suppression for a cost swap to reduce the effectiveness of Maxim spam.

It means the units hit the field slower. What is actually scary about Maxim spam? It's the fact that you can't flank them because there 3-4 of them. If each Maxim comes out slower though then the tactic becomes weaker because it's easier to flank as you're waiting for your third and fourth Maxim longer.

Increasing their cost increases the "attrition" of killing Maxim members. Higher cost for Maxim means more manpower per reinforcement.

The AoE suppression buff is to make it actually suppress more than one squad at a time. Which is the role of an HMG. These changes encourage using the Maxim as an HMG squad and not as a basic troop. He explains all of this at the bottom. Did you read his explanations and thought behind his changes at the bottom? You seem to be having a bit of a "knee jerk" reaction to all of this.

The only one who is coming off as extremely biased here is yourself.

You can even see a game where Cruzz plays OKW vs Soviets on two video highlights on the front page of this website. So no. He doesn't "just play Soviets".

Cruzz suggests buffing Maxim AOE suppression for a cost swap to reduce the effectiveness of Maxim spam.

It means the units hit the field slower. What is actually scary about Maxim spam? It's the fact that you can't flank them because there 3-4 of them. If each Maxim comes out slower though then the tactic becomes weaker because it's easier to flank as you're waiting for your third and fourth Maxim longer.

Increasing their cost increases the "attrition" of killing Maxim members. Higher cost for Maxim means more manpower per reinforcement.

The AoE suppression buff is to make it actually suppress more than one squad at a time. Which is the role of an HMG. These changes encourage using the Maxim as an HMG squad and not as a basic troop. He explains all of this at the bottom. Did you read his explanations and thought behind his changes at the bottom? You seem to be having a bit of a "knee jerk" reaction to all of this.

So let me get this straight. You wait an extra 4-5 seconds for a Maxim spam that from atm can at least be flanked to a tiny degree (If at all) to a point where it cannot be flanked at all because it can suppress multiple squads. This is already being abused and has broken the game. Oh yes and because doing this will not do any extra damange to german squads and force them to lose units and hence MP flow. Nice logic. Maxims need to be nerfed in its current state. Not buffed as this biased post shows.

Then he want to increase MG34 price for no increase in performance. This says it all.

He doesnt address US AA HT. LOL. Doesnt address OH T4. wants to increase Soviet units AOE performacne and fuel decreases on key units and when he does say Buff OH or OKW, they are useless buffs that will get the game nowhere.

Awesome logic mate. Let me buy you a beer.

There we go. Only took 3 pages before the 'ur so biased' has to be thrown away.

The unfortunate part of this thread is that Relic will more than likely not act on it. Even with a large majority of the community agreeing with the OP. Relic just appears to be out of touch with the community.