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russian armor

Retreat = Suicide

5 Aug 2014, 01:45 AM
#21
avatar of ThoseDeafMutes

Posts: 1026

I think machine guns are a bit too prone to dying on the retreat thanks to the 25% accuracy modifier, but otherwise it's okay.



Yeah when they swapped the .50 cals 25% bonus accuracy for 25% increased accuracy recieved, the unit suddenly became made of paper. It never felt all that overpowered before and nobody was really complaining about it, now it's kinda... eh.
5 Aug 2014, 02:21 AM
#22
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

Yeah when they swapped the .50 cals 25% bonus accuracy for 25% increased accuracy recieved, the unit suddenly became made of paper. It never felt all that overpowered before and nobody was really complaining about it, now it's kinda... eh.


Yeah they seem to rely more on raw numbers than feedback, which is good for the most part, except when they go and nerf a unit that's already not great. And buff one that is (fucking M15 AAHT).
5 Aug 2014, 04:14 AM
#23
avatar of astro_zombie

Posts: 123



Yeah they seem to rely more on raw numbers than feedback, which is good for the most part, except when they go and nerf a unit that's already not great. And buff one that is (fucking M15 AAHT).


They nerfed the M15, what are you talking about?
5 Aug 2014, 07:02 AM
#24
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1

Coming from Coh1, it was quite surprising at the beginning and I lost myself many squads while retreating. Now with a month of experience, you should be aware of that. If you're still making mistake and losing squads like that, it's your fault, not game mechanism's one.
5 Aug 2014, 07:18 AM
#25
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

They nerfed the M15, what are you talking about?


They nerfed the range slightly, but in an undocumented change reduced reload frequency by 50% on the M2's. In other words, they doubled the mag capacity of the secondary MG's.
5 Aug 2014, 07:29 AM
#26
avatar of Schewi

Posts: 175

Retreating is fine, it is a skill to retreat at the right time without loosing the squad in the process. I don't like post where people try to make a game easier to play, just because they can't handle a certain mechanic.
It only means that you should improve your playstyle in that regard.
5 Aug 2014, 08:08 AM
#27
avatar of Bulgakov

Posts: 987

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Aug 2014, 23:07 PMGreeb
I don't dislike the retreat mechanics, but what I'm saying is that accuracy on the move should be much worse for units using long range weapons.

Is not the same to shot from the hip a Ppsh while moving than aiming a Kar98k rifle against a running target.



Greeb has made some good points.

He's not talking about units retreating through a flanking enemy. That should stay as it is.

He's talking about long-range units chasing you after you've retreated and getting high damage on you anyway.

I've noticed this especially with US rifles and Panzerfusiliers. After a face-to-face battle, one retreats and the other charges them down and can often get a squad wipe.



And as someone else pointed out, the derpy behaviour of retreating units can also cause losses.
5 Aug 2014, 08:12 AM
#28
avatar of geist

Posts: 79

Imo this happens because the damage model of Rifles. They hit very often, but do less dmg than carbines. This often results in 3/4 men of your grens are still alive, but the healthbar is very low (medic Bunker is much more needed as before).
8 Aug 2014, 14:09 PM
#29
avatar of B4Z00K4

Posts: 38

"Retreat" is not equivalent to "autosave". Anyway, most of the time the units take the most retarded way to fall back, resulting in a "retreated-at-time" but "killed by AI dumb mechanics".
8 Aug 2014, 15:05 PM
#30
avatar of Sarantini
Honorary Member Badge
Donator 22

Posts: 2181

The damage on retreat is not the problem, it is the plethora of bugs that comes with retreating

-Units will sometimes retreat while crawling and suppressed
-Units will sometimes run back a couple meters after taking damage
-Units will still hug and stop at cover instead of ignoring it
-if maxim gunner dies on retreat it takes a very long time before they start runnign again
8 Aug 2014, 15:42 PM
#31
avatar of Bulgakov

Posts: 987

The damage on retreat is not the problem, it is the plethora of bugs that comes with retreating

-Units will sometimes retreat while crawling and suppressed
-Units will sometimes run back a couple meters after taking damage
-Units will still hug and stop at cover instead of ignoring it
-if maxim gunner dies on retreat it takes a very long time before they start runnign again


THISSSSSSSSSSSSSS RELIC, THISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.
8 Aug 2014, 15:49 PM
#32
avatar of YouGetGot

Posts: 71



i, too, think long range dmg (lmgs) needs to be toned down, yet if you get caught by a blob while retreating it is really your fault and you should be punished for being so unaware of your enemies' movement


I'm ok with getting caught by a blob and dying. I'm not ok with my units running away from my selected point of retreat forward up the map and then into a blob. The retreat system should not make units go forward on the map unless there is no other possible path.

If I am retreating and an enemy unit behind me cuts me off, then I'm ok with that as well. That's just the risk.

I think there has to be some differentiation between the shortest route, and placing more importance on moving backward out of combat first, then taking the shortest route.
8 Aug 2014, 18:56 PM
#33
avatar of Greeb

Posts: 971


He's talking about long-range units chasing you after you've retreated and getting high damage on you anyway.


Exactly.

Currently OKW and USF get a lot more chances of wiping squads chasing them while retreating than Ost (LMG can't shot while on the move) or soviets, who doesn't have any kind of long-range.

Nothing more distressing than seeing how you retreat a nearly full health squad facing a obersoldaten spam, just to see them being decimated while the spam chases them at maximum range. Meanwhile your squad crashes and bump into every wall, rock or tree in the map slowing their retreat.

Losing a 70~80% health retreating squad due to bad pathing and long-range weapons, whithout being intercepted or flanked, is not fun and undeserved.

Same applies to support weapons, but even worse. Sometimes is virtually impossible to retreat a HMG. I would like that in the case of retreating support units the weapon carrier was always the last man to die.
8 Aug 2014, 21:41 PM
#34
avatar of varunax

Posts: 210

What I don't get is why retreat paths don't take leaping over obstacles an option. There are times when you retreat, units will run all the way around a particular fence and get killed while doing it instead of jumping over the fence.

It's kind of dumb in my opinion. Also the fact that retreating units still have collision hit boxes sucks. It just just promotes blobbing play. The more squads you have, the easier it is to surround your opponents squads with your men and force them to get stuck inside your squads; blocking their retreat path.
8 Aug 2014, 21:45 PM
#35
avatar of Romeo
Honorary Member Badge
Benefactor 115

Posts: 1970 | Subs: 5

What I don't get is why retreat paths don't take leaping over obstacles an option. There are times when you retreat, units will run all the way around a particular fence and get killed while doing it instead of jumping over the fence.

It's kind of dumb in my opinion. Also the fact that retreating units still have collision hit boxes sucks. It just just promotes blobbing play. The more squads you have, the easier it is to surround your opponents squads with your men and force them to get stuck inside your squads; blocking their retreat path.


auto-vaulting on retreat would be cool.

I'm not sure what I think about no-clip retreating. Blocking a retreat path with a vehicle can be tough and rewarding to pull off. I definitely don't think retreating should be a get out of jail free card, I think they should just fix all the bugs associated with it without changing the design.
8 Aug 2014, 21:52 PM
#36
avatar of Greeb

Posts: 971

AI should be implemented that retreating units could vault fences or at least that the retreating path tried to pass through your nearest own sectors, even if that means a little detour.
Currently it just simply chooses the shortest straight line, and go for it even if that means passing close to 3 enemy trucks.

I hate doing encirclements to enemy troops and if by any way I have to retreat any unit doing so, they run towards the mass of enemy troops.
8 Aug 2014, 22:25 PM
#37
avatar of Dullahan

Posts: 1384



Yeah when they swapped the .50 cals 25% bonus accuracy for 25% increased accuracy recieved, the unit suddenly became made of paper. It never felt all that overpowered before and nobody was really complaining about it, now it's kinda... eh.


They were just bringing it in line with the German machine gun which takes the same penalty.

It was added back when people whined about conscripts not killing the crew before it could retreat.
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