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Finally a reason for Relic to Nerf that BS

4 Aug 2014, 14:59 PM
#41
avatar of FrikadelleXXL

Posts: 390

Permanently Banned


Which is why improving kubel efficiency against snipers is probably the best solution.


No, Kubel already is too efficient against infantry.
4 Aug 2014, 17:52 PM
#42
avatar of Dullahan

Posts: 1384



Maybe if you're lucky, but an M3 will easily handle a Kuebel (which is a given if he went snipers).

The damage on the M3 wrecks the Kuebel, making it impossible to advance with it.


That's true, just throwing it out there that OKW actually has a very potent sniper counter.

Kubel being made of wet paper is going to continue to be a balance issue though. If the M3 doesn't get it, At grenades will.
4 Aug 2014, 18:07 PM
#43
avatar of Bulgakov

Posts: 987

Kubel *could* kill a sniper, I'd say it's more of a soft counter than a hard counter. Short range, not that fast, not so effective vs retreating snipers and paper in front of an M3.

They should swap the M3 for the Kubel :) you could easily chase down snipers with an M3 if only the Kubel was defending.

But snipers with an M3 behind them = no Kubelcounter :/


4 Aug 2014, 18:34 PM
#44
avatar of DarthBong420

Posts: 381



No, Kubel already is too efficient against infantry.

ummm... what? maybe if you charge at it from the front. otherwise it just dies. kubel is garbage against soviets, its alright against america noobs who charge it with 3 rifles from the front and don't bother flanking. otherwise it dies. you can only go straight back or forward or else the driver will start doing some doughnuts in front of the enemy instead of simply driving away.
4 Aug 2014, 18:40 PM
#45
avatar of Ginnungagap

Posts: 324 | Subs: 2


At Vet 1, Pumas get Aimed shot, which easily kills snipers since it never misses.

I never tested this ability on snipers. It would be amazing if that really works. Does it kill only one model though?


Regarding M3/Snipers/Guards against OKW: I haven't had enough experience to comment on the balance in this particular matchup. But i can say one thing for certain: I really dislike to play as OKW against it. This hardcounter style of gameplay shows CoH2 in it's worst from. Basically you have to go all-in with a vehicle other than a Kübelwagen and hope the enemy hasn't layed mines or buttons you. Surprise Falls/JLI can work also, every other thing (leIG 18, Stuka) is not that reliable in my opinion.

Limiting snipers to 2 sounds good to me. Or at least make them killable by a moving Kübelwagen. I want to see snipers as support units, not as a main army with Guards as support.
4 Aug 2014, 18:48 PM
#46
avatar of Xylon666Darkstar

Posts: 11

JLI > Snipers. Yeah, it's non-doctrinal, but it's better than nothing. Way better than fusiliers + they rape guards + no wasted munitions on G43's + THEY HAVE SPRINT. Volks will have infiltration nades as well from Scavenger commander.

Hans was too stubborn in his games vs Barton to do anything different, and opted to waste valuable resources on 3+ extra Flak HT's after the first one he lost. Despite flawless Puma play vs 2 ISU's, he still deserved that loss with his mismanage of resources and units overall.

Vs snipers as OKW, it's largely a learn2play issue tbh. They could use better doctrinal options, sure (like buff kubelwagon imo).
4 Aug 2014, 19:04 PM
#47
avatar of Abdul

Posts: 896

I agree sniper spam is a problem, and it's mainly from the soviet side. Limiting it to 1 sniper can be a solution if applied to both factions. However I would like to see the changes to the long range damage that relic intends to implement for soviet infantry before calling for such change.
4 Aug 2014, 20:12 PM
#48
avatar of FrikadelleXXL

Posts: 390

Permanently Banned

ummm... what? maybe if you charge at it from the front. otherwise it just dies. kubel is garbage against soviets, its alright against america noobs who charge it with 3 rifles from the front and don't bother flanking. otherwise it dies. you can only go straight back or forward or else the driver will start doing some doughnuts in front of the enemy instead of simply driving away.


No, but most maps are so designed that you have to frontally charge them.
4 Aug 2014, 20:26 PM
#49
avatar of Dullahan

Posts: 1384

Kubel *could* kill a sniper, I'd say it's more of a soft counter than a hard counter. Short range, not that fast, not so effective vs retreating snipers and paper in front of an M3.

They should swap the M3 for the Kubel :) you could easily chase down snipers with an M3 if only the Kubel was defending.

But snipers with an M3 behind them = no Kubelcounter :/





As I said, vet 1 kubel detect ability reveals any sniper within a huge radius. The hard part is getting it to vet 1 without losing it to m3 bullshit.
4 Aug 2014, 20:57 PM
#50
avatar of LemonJuice

Posts: 1144 | Subs: 7

JLI (and fallschirmjager to a lesser extent) are the best counters to soviet snipers in my experience. however, this becomes incredibly map dependent because you need the sniper close to a building for this to work. on maps like Minsk this wouldnt work at all.
at close range the JLI will make short work of the snipers. You can also kill snipers on retreat with JLI, but just make sure not to use sprint because then they cant fire on the move.

the infrared STG also icnreases detect range but i doubt youd want to get expensive obers in the line of fire.
5 Aug 2014, 07:34 AM
#51
avatar of Abdul

Posts: 896



As I said, vet 1 kubel detect ability reveals any sniper within a huge radius. The hard part is getting it to vet 1 without losing it to m3 bullshit.


If the soviets didn't have the m3, the kubel would be bs against them.
5 Aug 2014, 07:49 AM
#52
avatar of ShadowTreasurer

Posts: 122

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Aug 2014, 07:34 AMAbdul


If the soviets didn't have the m3, the kubel would be bs against them.


That doesnt mean that it's ok for the m3/flamer to abuse OKW (and Ostheer) in early game.

The only problem with the m3 is that it comes out too early, < 2 minutes. The fuel increase of m3 from the previous patch didnt change this from happening. I'd prefer if they found a way to make it arrive a bit later (atleast 3:30) and get a small buff.

It would be more fair if Soviets were forced to atleast have 2 conscripts on the field before getting T1/T2 units. It's against its faction theme/design to forgo conscripts and that's why m3 flamer starts (and maybe only getting several maxims first) are cheese.
5 Aug 2014, 08:02 AM
#53
avatar of Abdul

Posts: 896



That doesnt mean that it's ok for the m3/flamer to abuse OKW (and Ostheer) in early game.

The only problem with the m3 is that it comes out too early, < 2 minutes. The fuel increase of m3 from the previous patch didnt change this from happening. I'd prefer if they found a way to make it arrive a bit later (atleast 3:30) and get a small buff.

It would be more fair if Soviets were forced to atleast have 2 conscripts on the field before getting T1/T2 units. It's against its faction theme/design to forgo conscripts and that's why m3 flamer starts (and maybe only getting several maxims first) are cheese.


I hope we don't change the topic here from snipers.

That's why I will provide 3 small pointers. Puma/ht arrive around 6-7 minutes. Shrek arrives around 4-5 minutes. At gun is available from the start. Soviet has to play defensive until m3 arrives. OKW has to play defensive until counter to m3 arrives. Ask relic about this stupid meta.

As for snipers, they are annoying as u know what, and OKW has no decent counter, that's why limiting the spam can be productive, but:

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Aug 2014, 19:04 PMAbdul
I would like to see the changes to the long range damage that relic intends to implement for soviet infantry before calling for such change.
8 Aug 2014, 03:46 AM
#54
avatar of Warthrone

Posts: 205

Permanently Banned
I watch Jesulin play vs this strategy. It is simply too difficult to deal with.
20 Aug 2014, 23:06 PM
#55
avatar of Warthrone

Posts: 205

Permanently Banned
Bump for relic to see
20 Aug 2014, 23:27 PM
#56
avatar of spajn
Donator 11

Posts: 927

What good does the 2 man sniping team do for the game?? All i see it creates a lot of problems, just like all soviet support team crew size does...
20 Aug 2014, 23:30 PM
#57
avatar of What Doth Life?!
Patrion 27

Posts: 1664

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Aug 2014, 23:27 PMspajn
What good does the 2 man sniping team do for the game?? All i see it creates a lot of problems, just like all soviet support team crew size does...


It bleeds for 90 mp every time you kill the spotter.
20 Aug 2014, 23:42 PM
#58
avatar of Tobis
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4



It bleeds for 90 mp every time you kill the spotter.


The German snipers bleeds 340 mp and veterancy.
21 Aug 2014, 00:07 AM
#59
avatar of CookiezNcreem
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 3052 | Subs: 15

maybe they should toy around with dramatically increasing Soviet Snipers Received accuracy to make the kubel and other units more accurate against them

This will also prevent snipers from being spammed since they will require screening infantry or theyll just be cut down rapidly

IF thats how received accuracy works...
21 Aug 2014, 00:16 AM
#60
avatar of Warthrone

Posts: 205

Permanently Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post20 Aug 2014, 23:27 PMspajn
What good does the 2 man sniping team do for the game?? All i see it creates a lot of problems, just like all soviet support team crew size does...


I had my puma take 6 shots at a two man sniper team, chased them all the way to base. Did not even kill one of them.
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