Which is why improving kubel efficiency against snipers is probably the best solution.
No, Kubel already is too efficient against infantry.
Finally a reason for Relic to Nerf that BS
4 Aug 2014, 14:59 PM
#41
Posts: 390
Permanently BannedNo, Kubel already is too efficient against infantry.
4 Aug 2014, 17:52 PM
#42
Posts: 1384
Maybe if you're lucky, but an M3 will easily handle a Kuebel (which is a given if he went snipers).
The damage on the M3 wrecks the Kuebel, making it impossible to advance with it.
That's true, just throwing it out there that OKW actually has a very potent sniper counter.
Kubel being made of wet paper is going to continue to be a balance issue though. If the M3 doesn't get it, At grenades will.
4 Aug 2014, 18:07 PM
#43
Posts: 987
Kubel *could* kill a sniper, I'd say it's more of a soft counter than a hard counter. Short range, not that fast, not so effective vs retreating snipers and paper in front of an M3.
They should swap the M3 for the Kubel
you could easily chase down snipers with an M3 if only the Kubel was defending.
But snipers with an M3 behind them = no Kubelcounter :/
They should swap the M3 for the Kubel
you could easily chase down snipers with an M3 if only the Kubel was defending. But snipers with an M3 behind them = no Kubelcounter :/
Let's keep it constructive
4 Aug 2014, 18:34 PM
#44
Posts: 381
No, Kubel already is too efficient against infantry.
ummm... what? maybe if you charge at it from the front. otherwise it just dies. kubel is garbage against soviets, its alright against america noobs who charge it with 3 rifles from the front and don't bother flanking. otherwise it dies. you can only go straight back or forward or else the driver will start doing some doughnuts in front of the enemy instead of simply driving away.
4 Aug 2014, 18:40 PM
#45
Posts: 324 | Subs: 2
At Vet 1, Pumas get Aimed shot, which easily kills snipers since it never misses.
I never tested this ability on snipers. It would be amazing if that really works. Does it kill only one model though?
Regarding M3/Snipers/Guards against OKW: I haven't had enough experience to comment on the balance in this particular matchup. But i can say one thing for certain: I really dislike to play as OKW against it. This hardcounter style of gameplay shows CoH2 in it's worst from. Basically you have to go all-in with a vehicle other than a Kübelwagen and hope the enemy hasn't layed mines or buttons you. Surprise Falls/JLI can work also, every other thing (leIG 18, Stuka) is not that reliable in my opinion.
Limiting snipers to 2 sounds good to me. Or at least make them killable by a moving Kübelwagen. I want to see snipers as support units, not as a main army with Guards as support.
http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198041705871
"Axis can STALL2WIN to get to that late game, there is really no hope for USF competitively short of getting the best side of the best USF maps and being an order of magnitude better than your opponent." - SageOfTheSix, after losing to Jesulin's Ostheer on Semoskiy Winter
"Axis can STALL2WIN to get to that late game, there is really no hope for USF competitively short of getting the best side of the best USF maps and being an order of magnitude better than your opponent." - SageOfTheSix, after losing to Jesulin's Ostheer on Semoskiy Winter
4 Aug 2014, 18:48 PM
#46
Posts: 11
JLI > Snipers. Yeah, it's non-doctrinal, but it's better than nothing. Way better than fusiliers + they rape guards + no wasted munitions on G43's + THEY HAVE SPRINT. Volks will have infiltration nades as well from Scavenger commander.
Hans was too stubborn in his games vs Barton to do anything different, and opted to waste valuable resources on 3+ extra Flak HT's after the first one he lost. Despite flawless Puma play vs 2 ISU's, he still deserved that loss with his mismanage of resources and units overall.
Vs snipers as OKW, it's largely a learn2play issue tbh. They could use better doctrinal options, sure (like buff kubelwagon imo).
Hans was too stubborn in his games vs Barton to do anything different, and opted to waste valuable resources on 3+ extra Flak HT's after the first one he lost. Despite flawless Puma play vs 2 ISU's, he still deserved that loss with his mismanage of resources and units overall.
Vs snipers as OKW, it's largely a learn2play issue tbh. They could use better doctrinal options, sure (like buff kubelwagon imo).
4 Aug 2014, 19:04 PM
#47
Posts: 896
I agree sniper spam is a problem, and it's mainly from the soviet side. Limiting it to 1 sniper can be a solution if applied to both factions. However I would like to see the changes to the long range damage that relic intends to implement for soviet infantry before calling for such change.
4 Aug 2014, 20:12 PM
#48
Posts: 390
Permanently Banned
ummm... what? maybe if you charge at it from the front. otherwise it just dies. kubel is garbage against soviets, its alright against america noobs who charge it with 3 rifles from the front and don't bother flanking. otherwise it dies. you can only go straight back or forward or else the driver will start doing some doughnuts in front of the enemy instead of simply driving away.
No, but most maps are so designed that you have to frontally charge them.
4 Aug 2014, 20:26 PM
#49
Posts: 1384
Kubel *could* kill a sniper, I'd say it's more of a soft counter than a hard counter. Short range, not that fast, not so effective vs retreating snipers and paper in front of an M3.
They should swap the M3 for the Kubel
But snipers with an M3 behind them = no Kubelcounter :/
As I said, vet 1 kubel detect ability reveals any sniper within a huge radius. The hard part is getting it to vet 1 without losing it to m3 bullshit.
4 Aug 2014, 20:57 PM
#50
Posts: 1144 | Subs: 7
JLI (and fallschirmjager to a lesser extent) are the best counters to soviet snipers in my experience. however, this becomes incredibly map dependent because you need the sniper close to a building for this to work. on maps like Minsk this wouldnt work at all.
at close range the JLI will make short work of the snipers. You can also kill snipers on retreat with JLI, but just make sure not to use sprint because then they cant fire on the move.
the infrared STG also icnreases detect range but i doubt youd want to get expensive obers in the line of fire.
at close range the JLI will make short work of the snipers. You can also kill snipers on retreat with JLI, but just make sure not to use sprint because then they cant fire on the move.
the infrared STG also icnreases detect range but i doubt youd want to get expensive obers in the line of fire.
5 Aug 2014, 07:34 AM
#51
Posts: 896
As I said, vet 1 kubel detect ability reveals any sniper within a huge radius. The hard part is getting it to vet 1 without losing it to m3 bullshit.
If the soviets didn't have the m3, the kubel would be bs against them.
5 Aug 2014, 07:49 AM
#52
Posts: 122
If the soviets didn't have the m3, the kubel would be bs against them.
That doesnt mean that it's ok for the m3/flamer to abuse OKW (and Ostheer) in early game.
The only problem with the m3 is that it comes out too early, < 2 minutes. The fuel increase of m3 from the previous patch didnt change this from happening. I'd prefer if they found a way to make it arrive a bit later (atleast 3:30) and get a small buff.
It would be more fair if Soviets were forced to atleast have 2 conscripts on the field before getting T1/T2 units. It's against its faction theme/design to forgo conscripts and that's why m3 flamer starts (and maybe only getting several maxims first) are cheese.
76561198140861243
5 Aug 2014, 08:02 AM
#53
Posts: 896
That doesnt mean that it's ok for the m3/flamer to abuse OKW (and Ostheer) in early game.
The only problem with the m3 is that it comes out too early, < 2 minutes. The fuel increase of m3 from the previous patch didnt change this from happening. I'd prefer if they found a way to make it arrive a bit later (atleast 3:30) and get a small buff.
It would be more fair if Soviets were forced to atleast have 2 conscripts on the field before getting T1/T2 units. It's against its faction theme/design to forgo conscripts and that's why m3 flamer starts (and maybe only getting several maxims first) are cheese.
I hope we don't change the topic here from snipers.
That's why I will provide 3 small pointers. Puma/ht arrive around 6-7 minutes. Shrek arrives around 4-5 minutes. At gun is available from the start. Soviet has to play defensive until m3 arrives. OKW has to play defensive until counter to m3 arrives. Ask relic about this stupid meta.
As for snipers, they are annoying as u know what, and OKW has no decent counter, that's why limiting the spam can be productive, but:
I would like to see the changes to the long range damage that relic intends to implement for soviet infantry before calling for such change.
8 Aug 2014, 03:46 AM
#54
Posts: 205
Permanently BannedI watch Jesulin play vs this strategy. It is simply too difficult to deal with.
20 Aug 2014, 23:06 PM
#55
Posts: 205
Permanently BannedBump for relic to see
20 Aug 2014, 23:27 PM
#56
1 
Posts: 927
What good does the 2 man sniping team do for the game?? All i see it creates a lot of problems, just like all soviet support team crew size does...
20 Aug 2014, 23:30 PM
#57
7 Posts: 1664
What good does the 2 man sniping team do for the game?? All i see it creates a lot of problems, just like all soviet support team crew size does...
It bleeds for 90 mp every time you kill the spotter.
20 Aug 2014, 23:42 PM
#58
1 Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4
It bleeds for 90 mp every time you kill the spotter.
The German snipers bleeds 340 mp and veterancy.
Tobis "Complete Throw"
Someone asked what my avatar was from... I really don't know.
Defeated Paula and knocked him out of 2v2 Anniversary Cup
Someone asked what my avatar was from... I really don't know.
Defeated Paula and knocked him out of 2v2 Anniversary Cup
21 Aug 2014, 00:07 AM
#59
1 Posts: 3052 | Subs: 15
maybe they should toy around with dramatically increasing Soviet Snipers Received accuracy to make the kubel and other units more accurate against them
This will also prevent snipers from being spammed since they will require screening infantry or theyll just be cut down rapidly
IF thats how received accuracy works...
This will also prevent snipers from being spammed since they will require screening infantry or theyll just be cut down rapidly
IF thats how received accuracy works...
21 Aug 2014, 00:16 AM
#60
Posts: 205
Permanently BannedWhat good does the 2 man sniping team do for the game?? All i see it creates a lot of problems, just like all soviet support team crew size does...
I had my puma take 6 shots at a two man sniper team, chased them all the way to base. Did not even kill one of them.
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