Kubelwagon Idea's and Possible Improvements

The Kubelwagen should be like the Raketenwerfer, all the crew should be standing outside of it and pushing it around except for the guy on the gun. Then you could move it around like an infantry squad and retreat it and so on. The excuse could be that it's out of gas. You could decrew it like a normal MG and the vehicle would only get damaged like normal MGs get damaged. Then at vet 5 or whatever it could go back to normal but it with way more health or something, I guess.

It's junk if you can't micro the unit. In the hands of a good player it's a pretty nice early game unit.

that will only serve you for 5 minutes and after that you're just afraid to move it anywhere because it will get destroyed, granted it didn't happen before 5 minutes mark.

No, thank you. Maybe if the cost was lower.

The only issue I find with the Kubel which makes them difficult to use on certain maps is their wide minimum turning radius. Unlike the motorbike/schwimm which is fairly good, the kubel, when maneuvering around stone walls and buildings, has a tendency to do multi-point turns facing the wrong way, or getting at-naded. If you don't use it in an a-move manner and keep trying to change its weapon facing, it will spin around in circles and try to back in range (rear towards enemy).

If you try to maneuver near stone walls to chase snipers, they also have a tendency to do wide radius loops trying to find a direction.

When you build an MG42 or Maxim, with good gameplay you could keep the unit alive the entire game and it will be useful. You also have the option to retreat preserving the unit. The Kubel Manpower cost is close to the other MG's in the game yet is only useful for the first give minutes. Something needs to be done to fix it at the very least remove the large radius turns and give it proper pathfinding.

When you build an MG42 or Maxim, with good gameplay you could keep the unit alive the entire game and it will be useful. You also have the option to retreat preserving the unit. The Kubel Manpower cost is close to the other MG's in the game yet is only useful for the first give minutes. Something needs to be done to fix it at the very least remove the large radius turns and give it proper pathfinding.

Well, consider Kubel the same as soviet M3. A shock unit that can do really good in the early game with good micro but which eventually will be destroyed.

What makes the kubel useful is what also makes it weak. Its a mobile mg on a car. Its not an armored car, so it cant have armor like armored scout cars. However, i think it is the smallest of all vehicles, so everything should have a tougher time hitting it than larger targets, but it still follows the rules of all vehicles where there is practically 0 chance of enemy rifles to miss it. Its completely viable for a Rear Archelon to flank a kubelwagen, and it will kill it, even though you wouldnt use RE for anything else because it is so bad. Kind of the reason why it would be a neat idea to have the mg of the kubelwagen to be retreivable, but then any team would be able to grab it (from a stable wreckage). Unless OKW are the only ones able to retreive it from the wreckage, but that would probably be unfair...

But because the kubel is a car, its use as an suppresion platform is much harder to use past 5 minutes into the game. It costs no fuel, anyways, so like it matters that much. You can still be an ass with it and make life hard for the enemy under those 5 minutes.

My favorite tactic with the kubel is to suppress a riflemen squad, then charge it with sturmpioneers. Its an instant retreat or wipe, which is extremely effective.

However, a real suggestion of mine would be to allow the kubel to continue its suppression even if it rotates in place. That would probably be very unfair for flanking tactics against it, but many times the kubelwagen rotates to target an enemy WITHOUT ME TELLING IT when it is already suppressing other units. Then it gets destroyed because of that. A soft position lock could do to prevent it from rotating and losing its suppression when i dont want it to.

It's junk if you can't micro the unit. In the hands of a good player it's a pretty nice early game unit.

But even then it's just too damn unreliable for a 240 MP investment that blows up sooner or later at the ~8 min mark. I'd rather go for a MG34 callin instead.

Well, consider Kubel the same as soviet M3. A shock unit that can do really good in the early game with good micro but which eventually will be destroyed.

The thing with the Soviet M3 Scout Car or American Dodge is that you can pretty much guarantee squad wipes using those units so they pay for themselves before it dies. The Kubel is not going to wipe out squads and just delays the inevitable. You have to deal with whatever spam comes your way, wether it is conscript spam, Riflespam or Maxim Spam the Kubel is not going to help you much. It is too unreliable for a 240MP unit that you will end up losing that has little impact in your game.

I would rather see the MG34 and Kubel switch places. The Mg34 is too important not to have. This way they could give the kubel some buffs if it was doctrinal. It is a mobile MG on wheels. That alone makes it a difficult unit to balance. I don't want to see Kubelwagons become unkillable until you have AT Guns yet at the same time having it the way it is now is not really worth building. You could invest that 240MP towards another sturmpioneer squad which will do more damage than the kubel would and get you to 1 point quicker for MG34, or 2CP for Panzerfusiliers or even put that manpower towards getting out Infantry Support Guns quicker. As it stands now this unit is under performing.

Reading the posts the main problem of the Kubelwagen (KW) is that it's poor in comba. But what if it's role was geared more towards utility?
Capture points, scout for allied infantry, and even lay mines or something, as long as it's not engaging other things. It is after all a lightly armed car, even lighter armed than 222 scout cars, and even those vehicles weren't meant for combat, more for reconnaissance. Even it's ability, Detection, leans towards this role. The current problem of course is that it has no other role but fighting. Give it capabilities like capturing points and its purpose becomes HUGE, all without having to change its stats and such.

If not a default ability, then perhaps future commanders could incorporate the ability for light vehicles to capture points, including the Kubelwagen. This vastly expands the capabilities of the KW (and others) as a unit throughout the entire game as it can be relegated to capture duty rather than to the few infantry you have on hand. You won't try to bring out a KW to engage that Major and his bazooka-armed friends. You send in your veteran Sturmpioniers...and the KW goes to capture points. The doctrinal ability alone (assuming its for all light vehicles, not merely for the KW) already makes this a very powerful commander, because you are not wasting your few infantry doing things besides shooting up the enemy.

It's junk if you can't micro the unit. In the hands of a good player it's a pretty nice early game unit.

No amount of micro can save that derpwagon from M3 / Jeep melting it.

I agree with "nee" that maybe giving it some capability to capture points might help. Of course you once again you run into the problem of any buffs on the Kubel make it too OP at the start of the game. I think it would be fine if they added the ability for it to cap points at like CP 2 and added like a 5 fuel cost, then it would be decent late game for sneak capping points, but the spammability would be toned down due to the fuel cost. Otherwise any kind of combat buffs might make it too good early game.

Reading the posts the main problem of the Kubelwagen (KW) is that it's poor in comba. But what if it's role was geared more towards utility?
Capture points, scout for allied infantry, and even lay mines or something, as long as it's not engaging other things. It is after all a lightly armed car, even lighter armed than 222 scout cars, and even those vehicles weren't meant for combat, more for reconnaissance. Even it's ability, Detection, leans towards this role. The current problem of course is that it has no other role but fighting. Give it capabilities like capturing points and its purpose becomes HUGE, all without having to change its stats and such.

If not a default ability, then perhaps future commanders could incorporate the ability for light vehicles to capture points, including the Kubelwagen. This vastly expands the capabilities of the KW (and others) as a unit throughout the entire game as it can be relegated to capture duty rather than to the few infantry you have on hand. You won't try to bring out a KW to engage that Major and his bazooka-armed friends. You send in your veteran Sturmpioniers...and the KW goes to capture points. The doctrinal ability alone (assuming its for all light vehicles, not merely for the KW) already makes this a very powerful commander, because you are not wasting your few infantry doing things besides shooting up the enemy.

So you want to change the Kubel into the new PE swimwagon with MG? I love the old, especially its incidinery trap/mine drop. Running around dropping traps, bating those M3 into mines is like cracks, if only my Kubel is faster.

No amount of micro can save that derpwagon from M3 / Jeep melting it.

Gotta agree here, it's kind of bullshit how easily the kubel dies to these guys.

Would like to see the kubel have more of asoft counter relationship with them. If both of them hurt each other enough, they're not going to rambo in. As long as M3/Jeep are immune to kubel and kill it near instantly building a kubel against sov t1/americans with jeep doctrine is too risky.

Honestly the kubel is a monster against the USF w/o the mechanized commander. It is a must have against Rifle Company. The King Kubel gives zero fucks about your vetted rifleman.(just be sure to support it with your sturms and kite the at nade). The amount of early game pressure you can apply totally makes up for the lack of scaling imo. Its a mobile suppression platform that is available instantly. It hard counters the typical 3 rifle start if micro'd well. Live and die by the kubel!

That being said its basically useless against the soviets, as they don't deal enough damage to flank maxims, and the M3 will destroy it. This is fine imo, not every unit needs to be valuable in every situation.

So you want to change the Kubel into the new PE swimwagon with MG? I love the old, especially its incidinery trap/mine drop. Running around dropping traps, bating those M3 into mines is like cracks, if only my Kubel is faster.

Yeah, pretty much. The Kettenkrad/ Schwimmwagen had other abilities though, I think capturing points should be just one of a multitude of doctrinal abilities, for example a tank hunter doctrine could have Kubels provide repair or something instead of capture, so an OKW player have benefits to certain units that are mutually exclusive to eachother, but with good teamwork can complement eachother for good effect.

If Kubels (or any other light vehicles for that matter) can do things other than fight, they are huge benefit to the rest of the army.

Gotta agree here, it's kind of bullshit how easily the kubel dies to these guys.

Would like to see the kubel have more of asoft counter relationship with them. If both of them hurt each other enough, they're not going to rambo in. As long as M3/Jeep are immune to kubel and kill it near instantly building a kubel against sov t1/americans with jeep doctrine is too risky.

Maybe give the kubel ability to load incidinery round at vet 1 or 2? That way the kubel will reward players who try to keep them alive. Heck, why don't Relic makes a commander that support Kubel? Here's my idea:
Advanced Armour Support Commander:
_Raid (0CP): OKW vehicle can decap point
_Repair kit (3CP): Volks can repair vehicles at a slower rate than pio
_Teller mine (4CP): Same as Ost
_Panzer commander (5CP): Same as Elite armor
_Mine drop (8CP): Kubel and Flak HT can be upgraded with field utility kit, allow them to drop mines and detect mines but remove their main weapon. (Kubel can only drop the weak mines like the ones from Soviet defense Doctrine and Flak HT can drop normal 30 muni mines.
This commander specializes in supporting armor, disrupting supply lines and mine warfare, give units like Kubel, Flak HT usage even in later stage of the game and alleviate the OKW's inherent weakness to mines. Pio is too expensive in late game to strictly minesweeping duty and they can't even remove demo charges on their own. With Kubel turn to Swimm, Flak HT turn to Munition HT Teller mine and extra view range, your lone Panther may now have a chance against the T-34/Sherman horde.

Not sure if this is too crazy of an idea... But what if the Kubelwagen is swapped for MG34 and the Luft and Fort. docs get the Kubelwagen? Of course the MG34 would cost a little bit more, maybe 20-30MP. I'm not sure if it would change too much balance wise considering MG34 is in two doctrines.

The Kubel could also gain a couple of new abilities for each doctrine. For example maybe with Luft after vet 1 it could serve as forward arty observer and call in small arty strike for ~100 munit. And maybe for fortifications it could 'hull down' i.e. put some sandbags infront making it immobile but reducing received damage from small arms fire by 50-60%. Also would increase suppression.

Just an idea...

1. Even if I use the reversebutton this piece of shit moves a bit forward before moving back.

2. I set the arc up, and tell it to attack something in that arc, what does this piece of shit? It rotates back, because it wants the unit I tell it to attack in the centre. Argh. Thats so frustrating, because then you lose the Surpression and then you lose the Kübelwagen.

3. M3s. Wtf. Why did they get this insane Penetration in the first place, was it meant as a counter to the FlamerHT? (Normal Mgs increased penetration also doesnt help this poor thing.)

4. Even though its pretty effective against USF (for example on minkspocket), Riflemen with a gunupgrade make it obsolet.

Would really like this unit to be a mobile attack unit.

It should have much better accuracy on the move. Or drop the price to 200 mp