Panzerfüsilier's over preformed before, Broken now

Yeah, conscripts need help in the new meta. They're the only core infantry that simply doesn't scale. Grenadiers get a potent LMG and are reasonably tough, Volks are very durable and get shrecks, and Rifles are, well, Rifles. Meanwhile conscripts are reduced to AT grenade dispensers, and their molotovs are OK but not anything special, not to mention you still need to invest 40ish fuel just to get that amount of minimal scaling.

if they are broken, then i don't know what else to think
Are rifleman supposed to dump every 200-300 mp squad? even with munitions they are costly

The problem is that they are not just cost effective, they are incredibly cost effective and scale really well into late game. G43s allow them to vet up rather fast, and they are not that costly of a squad when you consider they are less than sturm pios, more durable, and with the 100% munitions income now all can have G43s. At 2 CPs it is easy to have a whole army of them like CptSprice does, and 20 minutes in, what is your infantry supposed to do against 6 G43 panzer fusilier units? half of them will be vet three at least by then, plus the sturm officer allows them to be even more accurate. It is true you need some other form of AT because you will not have shrecks all over the place, but reketenwerfers, Pumas, and jagdP4s are not hard to get when you wipe the floor with the infantry fights.

Relic has also said that soviets are the faction of hard counters. The game has changed since both of these statements have been made.

PPSH is doctrinal
Shock troops are doctrinal
Guards are doctrinal

Soviet's lack a non-doctrinal infantry unit that can propagate damage at range.

The one constant in life is change. It's time for some change to small weapons profiles.

to be honest, the whole "thats doctrinal" argument doesnt really work here. soviets are very reliant on doctrines BY DESIGN. this has never changed. if/when relic does a complete redesign of soviets, this may change, but it hasnt. soviets typically choose t1 or t2 and t3 or t4. each tier specializes in certain areas and its up to doctrines to fill those holes.

this idea is further supported by the fact that soviets have a shitload of call in units. of the 19 soviet commanders, 5 have ppsh, 6 have shocks and 4 have guards. that leaves only 6 commanders without ppsh, shocks or guards.

of the remaining 6 doctrines, two specialize in tanks (armored assault and industry), one specializes in weapon teams (defensive tactics), one has partisans and one has fhqs. the last doctrine is nkvd and that is just a shit doctrine. but 5 out of the remaining 6 specialize in something other than elite infantry.

They're the only core infantry that simply doesn't scale. Grenadiers get a potent LMG and are reasonably tough, Volks are very durable and get shrecks, and Rifles are, well, Rifles. Meanwhile conscripts are reduced to AT grenade dispensers, and their molotovs are OK but not anything special, not to mention you still need to invest 40ish fuel just to get that amount of minimal scaling.

ill say it one more time. CONS ARE NOT MEANT TO SCALE. relics words, not mine. read what i wrote above which shows soviets are given plenty of doctrinal options to make up for con scaling.

still funny that you say grens are "tough" and volks are "very durable" when cons have more hp than either squad.

Vetted Volks are much more durable than other infantry except shocks: reduced dmg received, less suppression, self healing and you complain they are not durable enough. (Baring shit like KV-8, B4 or Kat)

Vetted Volks are much more durable than other infantry except shocks: reduced dmg received, less suppression, self healing and you complain they are not durable enough. (Baring shit like KV-8, B4 or Kat)

Except they need to get to that point - in which they perform pretty crap, and you might as well have fielded a tougher unit instead of drag around a burden that always seems to die halfway to the durable point.

PFüsilliers vs USAF: Balanced in my opinion.
PF Win vs Riflemen at long range and lose at short range.
G43 PF vs Riflemen with 1 BAR, mostly even on all ranges.
G43 PF vs Rilfeman with 2 Bar, Riflemen win.
And the American Player can always have more Riflesmensquad since he has 3-4 at the point the OKW Player gets his first PF.
Just for the Fun, PF with G43 vs Riflemen with 2 lmg1919: short range balanced, long range slaughter.

That means, if you nerf PF they become useless vs USAF in my opinion. At the moment I consider them German Riflemen that don’t need to research their upgrades but need 2 CP. With the officer the PF can fight even Riflemen with 2 weapon upgrades, but that’s 2 Commander Slots to just have a fighting chance vs a base Inf unit.

PFüsiliers vs Soviets: PF overpower the Soviet Army in my opinion. Because the Soviet army has many short and mid range inf that is countered by the G43. The Soviet Army relies on strong mines, good AI Tanks and strong Arty vs Inf later in the game. But 6 men Squads are less likely to get wiped out by that kind of weapon unlike the 4 men WM squads, the Faction the Soviets are balanced against.
Last Problem, Soviet snipers and maxims have a special Problem vs PF because of the high sight range with G43. A good OKW player will only run into a maxim with PF if it`s behind a corner. In all other cases he will just avoid the arc of fire and flank it. And Snipers that aren`t cloaked can also be seen before the snipers can see the PF and even if the snipers are cloaked they can only do 1 shoot and then they have to relocate because of the long range fire power + sight range of the PF.

That means the PF are strong vs the Soviet Army because the Soviet Army isn`t designed to fight 6 men squads that are decent at all ranges and has a huge line of sight. Even Obers are easier to fight for the Soviet army, since Snipers, mines, Arty and AI Tanks can really drain the MP of an OKW Player who relies heavily on Falls or Obers.

Conclusion: Nerf the PF and they will be useless against Riflemen and just to bad in comparison to Falls or Obers. But on the other hand, they are really hard to fight as Soviets in the current state of the game.

As always, just my opinion.
Hagen

Conclusion: Nerf the PF and they will be useless against Riflemen

Rifles will get nerf.
Its weird to not expect them to get nerfed at long range.

and just to bad in comparison to Falls or Obers. But on the other hand, they are really hard to fight as Soviets in the current state of the game.

There is more to the equation then just DPS.

Fusiliers still are most durable squad, have AT and AI nades, huge sight range and are relatively cheap for what they bring.

Rifles will get nerf.
Its weird to not expect them to get nerfed at long range.

At the same day Riflemen get nerfed, the Pf can be nerfed the same amount in my opinion. That would also help to improve the balance vs the Soviet Army.

I hope Relic will see that this thing GERMAN win fight on long range ALLIES on short range lead to nowhere. You can only do that when a map is perfectly balanced and reward melee combat AND range combat. On most maps this isn't given and Allies still lack of good long range infantry (especially sovjets)