Panzerfüsilier's over preformed before, Broken now

I beat a guy who spammed PF's and got a jagtiger...I think he was a coh1 vet who was still getting used to playing.

Tough game for me as I'm still learning, but I won by making sure my rifles didn't get wiped out and got vetted, with BARs.

i would say they need abit of tweaking. they can match guards with dp at range.

up the cost to make them less spammy would be a good start. but maybe this is more of a guards issue, than a panzerfusilier one.

It's a Guard's issue. Soviet infantry (aside from shocktroops) is meh x million.

These squads seem batshit OP to me.

6 men with a now spammable G43 upgrade and an officer to boost their DPS by 10-20%?

Right...

Plus they have anti tank and deadly anti infantry grenades.

I feel like this unit was intended to be munition starved but since the buff is now a goddamn nightmare and completely spammable. They are way better than obers as they cost 30% less, have 6 models to avoid wipes, and once they vet up are fucking obsence in terms of DPS output.

They need to cost like 350 and get a higher reinforce cost or have their G43 upgrade increased to 120 to reflec the change to OKW economy. They absolutely eat rifles and shocks at mid to close range, and have enough staying power to outlast at long.

No offense but this comment is pretty out of line. "Spammable" is a term that only applies to the context of the situation. The upgrade is 90 munitions, the only way its spammable is if you aren't upgrading to shrecks, or spending munis on mines, or you are drastically dominating in terms of map control. I wouldn't say they are "way better than obers". More flexible due to squad size and at nade, sure. Less likely to wipe due to a random explosion? Absolutely. Deal more burst damage at max range? Hell no. Spreading misinformation on the forums as a response to in game frustration to dealing with the unit doesn't help us reach any conclusions about how the unit is performing.

The comment about them eating shocks at close range is a dead give away that you are spreading misinformation to support your argument.

can you guys check your facts a bit before posting?

first of all, shocks dominate panzerfusiliers at close range. its not even close. shocks do 71 dps compared to 34 for g43 fusiliers. shocks also have armor, and if you include the 90 munitions for the upgrade, shocks are cheaper.

guards on the other hand beat fusiliers at long range. dps are lmgs, which are best at long range. fusiliers with g43s only do 10 dps at long range compared to 15 for guards with dps. fusiliers do more damage at close range because thats what g43s are good at. besides, guards arent even dedicated AI. they have better long range dps than fusiliers while carrying 2 AT weapons.

It's a Guard's issue. Soviet infantry (aside from shocktroops) is meh x million.

I disagree, contrary to popular belief, penals actually scale quite well at vet 3, and conscripts offer so much utility that IMO scaling them into elite infantry late game is overkill. Every soviet infantry squad has some sort of unique utility attached to them. Guards should not equal the combat effectiveness of obers, for example, because they have the added flexiblity of squad size, and button. Conscripts have the ever useful oorah, at nade, and molotov. Shocks are just monsters right now, and guards have the ability to dish out solid long range damage and act as soft vehicle cc. Soviet troops are extremely flexible and their squad size allows them to survive the late game. Buffing their scaling or damage output would put the faction even more over the top as they already have access to the widest range of heavy armor in the game.

I don't see them overperforming too much due to the fact that Americans also have a very powerful infantry arsenal and the panzerfusilers die pretty easily.

Are there dps too high? can a panzerfusilier squad beat a riflemen with two Bars or two m1919s? 90 munitions is still alot to pay for.

I disagree, contrary to popular belief, penals actually scale quite well at vet 3, and conscripts offer so much utility that IMO scaling them into elite infantry late game is overkill. Every soviet infantry squad has some sort of unique utility attached to them. Guards should not equal the combat effectiveness of obers, for example, because they have the added flexiblity of squad size, and button. Conscripts have the ever useful oorah, at nade, and molotov. Shocks are just monsters right now, and guards have the ability to dish out solid long range damage and act as soft vehicle cc. Soviet troops are extremely flexible and their squad size allows them to survive the late game. Buffing their scaling or damage output would put the faction even more over the top as they already have access to the widest range of heavy armor in the game.

obers are overperforming, that must be acknowledged. that 6man advanatage is offset by the 0.7 received accuracy. also a single lmg34 out dps the entire guards squad with dp28s. conscripts are only utility squads, like grenadiers or volks. which both the latter can scale well into the game. they should not scale into elite infantry, but they need help with their dps in late game and not retreat at the sight of every other infantry.

yes i didnt check my facts, but it sure feels that way. guards cannot fotm, unlike fusiliers and are also more expensive. fusiliers also have 6 man with fotm, these make them durable and effective in closing in the distance. most of the time, before guards have the time to do some damage, fusiliers are in medium to close range, where they will beat guards quite handily. if guards move, they also lose out by not being able to fire their their dp28s. so to speak, it isnt that far off to say they match guards. it was my fault to say they match at range, so let me rephrase that.

the ptrs are deadweights, they bring only absymal AT performance to the table. most of the time, guards arent used as AT infantry but AI instead with a minor AT support role and button.

FestiveLongJohns: Spot on!

I disagree, contrary to popular belief, penals actually scale quite well at vet 3, and conscripts offer so much utility that IMO scaling them into elite infantry late game is overkill. Every soviet infantry squad has some sort of unique utility attached to them. Guards should not equal the combat effectiveness of obers, for example, because they have the added flexiblity of squad size, and button. Conscripts have the ever useful oorah, at nade, and molotov. Shocks are just monsters right now, and guards have the ability to dish out solid long range damage and act as soft vehicle cc. Soviet troops are extremely flexible and their squad size allows them to survive the late game. Buffing their scaling or damage output would put the faction even more over the top as they already have access to the widest range of heavy armor in the game.

I must disagree with you. This would be better suited for my Soviet core faction design discussion though.

• Scale well at Vet 3. Vet 3 being the key word. Getting to that point is very difficult and keeping them there is long. At that stage of late game play OKW mid-long range effective infantry are on the field. Getting to the sweet spot to apply the penal's damage involved absorbing shots from that infantry. They don't have armor value and they become a MP sink. I believe this is why Relic has asked for the communities input in regards to long range infantry combat.
  
• On the subject of Conscripts I'd agree. They become useful for A/T nades and as such, in the late game, they are just a walking group of dudes servings up A/T nades. That is pretty sad.
  
• "Allows them to survive", that is about the extent of it I suppose. OKW infantry defeat the Soviet infantry while they are maneuvering into range to apply damage. The only exception to this is Guards which require a very expensive DP upgrade and are limited to commander call ins. Soviet long range effective infantry just don't really exist.
  
• Define heavy armor? The IS2 and ISU152. OST Tiger, Tiger Ace, Elephant. OKW JadTiger, King Tiger. Seems about equal.

I wish i could drop my PTRS without them gaurds do much more damage

penals get a received accuracy modifier at vet 3. a penal thats been alive since early game should have vet 3 by late game.

soviets have shocks and guards (and in a way, penals) to serve as elite infantry. relic has repeatedly said that cons are not meant to scale well into the late game. if you want to improve that, you can get ppsh. otherwise, you start replacing them with shocks for close range or guards for long range.

I have to agree with wooof/festive, soviet is generally the faction I have the least trouble getting and keeping vet 3 with. Conscripts in particular, since you can use oorah to fix your retreat path.

just looking at the numbers they don't see Op. I've seen them in the game and they are ferocious. 290 seems like a good price for what you get and 90 is a lot for a weapons upgrade. How much pop are they taking up? If they are mostly equal to grenadiers then that should be a base to scale pop cost on. If they are 6 pop, then I think it's a problem.

soviets have shocks and guards (and in a way, penals) to serve as elite infantry. relic has repeatedly said that cons are not meant to scale well into the late game. if you want to improve that, you can get ppsh. otherwise, you start replacing them with shocks for close range or guards for long range.

Relic has also said that soviets are the faction of hard counters. The game has changed since both of these statements have been made.

PPSH is doctrinal
Shock troops are doctrinal
Guards are doctrinal

Soviet's lack a non-doctrinal infantry unit that can propagate damage at range.

The one constant in life is change. It's time for some change to small weapons profiles.

Relic has also said that soviets are the faction of hard counters. The game has changed since both of these statements have been made.

PPSH is doctrinal
Shock troops are doctrinal
Guards are doctrinal

Soviet's lack a non-doctrinal infantry unit that can propagate damage at range.

The one constant in life is change. It's time for some change to small weapons profiles.

It seems the Majority of people want Scripts to be a throw away unit. I really dont understand that thought process.

Even fighting Soviets all the time now I want them to have viable non doctrinal infantry. I really dont understand

yeah yeah Mid game but what about Early game? They are outgunned horribly from inception. How about we strap bombs at them and just throw them at OKW?

It seems the Majority of people want Scripts to be a throw away unit. I really dont understand that thought process.

The reason is exactly the same why people believe grens should kill 100 scripts before taking a casualty and tanks should be invincible.

Delusions and myths.

yeah yeah Mid game but what about Early game? They are outgunned horribly from inception. How about we strap bombs at them and just throw them at OKW?

I often do this with Penal's.

Penals are easy to vet against OKW. Just load them inside a M3, get flamers and go against Volks and Sturmpios. Once vetted they are wonderful but easy to kill, try to conceal them between more valuable units (shocks) to avoid fire.

Shocks always win Pzfusiliers easily but they can have some trouble getting at close range. Use smoke to cover them charging.

I don't use guards hardly ever, so I'm don't know how they do against OKW infantry.

6 man for 290 MP and I beliewve cheap reinforce (never used them) seems to be not right, with G43 upgrade they are hell of the beasts, and usually they vet fast because of that, and at vet they are one of best unit in game