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State of the balance according to Imperial Dane

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22 Jul 2014, 21:57 PM
#281
avatar of VetLolcake

Posts: 342

Permanently Banned


I dont offend other players. I merely point to facts. Unlike you, comparing Dane to hitler.

Its an anomaly why your continual abuse and badgering of other forum members not bowing down to your arguments doesnt result in you being banned.


Why because he has a differing opinion on balance than you? I agree with everything that Dane said. the statistics atm point to the fact that DAne is absolutely correct
22 Jul 2014, 21:59 PM
#282
avatar of VetLolcake

Posts: 342

Permanently Banned


No, you are not. You are just a baddy.


Is it a raw coincidence that all the forum baddies that hate me have player 5 or 6 times the amount of games as soviets than axis.

They just keep piling up.

It just shows that unfortunatley the people representing balance in the game are by far majority soviet and US players that lurk in these forums. Hence cry and whine on the forum and as a result balanced has been scewed since march
22 Jul 2014, 22:04 PM
#283
avatar of WiFiDi
Honorary Member Badge

Posts: 3293

there could be many reasons for this. one of those being its easier to get games as allies since there always seems to be more axis then allies.

preferring to playing one faction over the other doesn't inherently make your forum posts biased.
22 Jul 2014, 22:06 PM
#284
avatar of Sarantini
Honorary Member Badge
Donator 22

Posts: 2181

When is the forum warrior showmatch
22 Jul 2014, 22:07 PM
#285
avatar of VetLolcake

Posts: 342

Permanently Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jul 2014, 22:04 PMWiFiDi
there could be many reasons for this. one of those being its easier to get games as allies since there always seems to be more axis then allies.


People dont need to take my word for it. The statistics are there for all to see.

Look at the top player statistics. American win/L ratios all above 90% soviets rising higher and higher look at the streaks. THsi shows pure soviet domination over OH and OKW.

Why cant people just admitt that US and soviets needs a nerf and the issues that dane addressed will go far in restoring parity.

Ridiculously WL ratios being recorded as US. and Soviet streaks are in the 25s now for the top 6 or 7 players.

ITS A JOKE.

50 wins and 1 loss for the TOP USA player. That is ridiculous. OBVIOUSLY SOMETHING IS WRONG.
22 Jul 2014, 22:09 PM
#286
avatar of CieZ

Posts: 1468 | Subs: 4

Dunno about you guys but I automatically don't listen to anyone who refuses to show their playercard when discussing balance. Especially when they throw out "fanboi" and other such phrases so liberally.

Not trying to be elitist but you do have to play all factions to understand balance properly, and you have to be pretty decent at the game...

@VetLol specifically - yes it is obvious that USF is too strong at the moment, and that OKW is probably too weak. People aren't necessarily disagreeing with you on that statement. Mostly that you're valuing Dane's opinion to the exclusion of all others. According to you, or so it seems, Dane is the most neutral player in the community while people like myself, Ivan, Cruzz etc have some extraordinary bias/hidden agenda - you/Dane are the biased ones =/
22 Jul 2014, 22:17 PM
#287
avatar of Ducati
Benefactor 115

Posts: 164

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jul 2014, 21:14 PMVonIvan

I have nothing against Dane, in fact I enjoy watching Dane's casts. However, his opinion on balance after reading several of his statements/opinions gave off to me a huge case of the fanboi. Not to say he is exactly(even though he's admitted to being one several times while streaming). I'd be glad to lay down several facts and statistics proving him wrong since you requested it, but I have, as I always do in the past respond with facts,an objective opinion, and an open mind on certain balance qwerks. Though I do get annoyed when the obvious(and yes there are still a couple on this very forum) fanboi comes down and completely derails the thread with super radical or completely biased statements that make me want to cringe every time I hear or read them. Cruzz can also back me up on Dane's balance critique.


We are all favor one faction to a certain extent, and all of us have biases. I find the fact he calls himself the minister of propaganda oddly honest. Its great that you enjoy his casts, I do too.

I agree with you that it is difficult to to have a fruitful discussion when a party is unaware of their bias, purposely drives their position to the extreme end of things or they only have not explored the other side of the debate. I also find it frustrating, it clouds the truth of issues in a thick fog. You are right there are several that haunt this forum.

However, you have not laid down anything other than a cheap jab. Based on your post, I don't sense an open mind nor do I see an intelligent post countering Danes point of view. If you'd be glad to lay out an opposing statement than do it! Don't make excuses or ask another forum member to do the leg work for you. I'd love to read some of your insight.



22 Jul 2014, 22:20 PM
#288
avatar of Ducati
Benefactor 115

Posts: 164

CieZ - I for one really appreciate your insightful well written posts.
22 Jul 2014, 22:34 PM
#289
avatar of WiFiDi
Honorary Member Badge

Posts: 3293

editing posts and putting quotes all in one post, people really need to learn to do this...
22 Jul 2014, 22:38 PM
#290
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jul 2014, 22:34 PMWiFiDi
editing posts and putting quotes all in one post, people really need to learn to do this...


*looks at top post on this page*

Naah, it looks hilarious seeing lolcake arguing and bashing himself.
22 Jul 2014, 22:39 PM
#291
avatar of CieZ

Posts: 1468 | Subs: 4

Aww thanks Ducati <444>3 - I'll do my best to stay civil/constructive and such. Sometimes resisting the trolls can be difficult xD

I think the most interesting thing in this video, to me anyways, is Dane's opinion on Ostheer. I agree that they're the most bland faction, but I think they're the strongest 1v1 faction - except for on a couple hyper-urban maps.

And his opinion that Volks are "a failure." They're freaking great at what they do...

And his comparison of the Su85 vs Jp4... "The Jp4 can't deal with heavy armor because it lacks penetration."

Su-85:
200/190/180
Jp4:
200/185/170

Yeah. Dat lack of penetration. Let's not forget that Jp4 has FIVE levels of vet, significantly more frontal armor, the ability to cloak, and is less of a tech investment x_X... Jp4 is a far cry from "god awful" it's good.
22 Jul 2014, 22:41 PM
#292
avatar of VonIvan

Posts: 2487 | Subs: 21

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jul 2014, 22:17 PMDucati


We are all favor one faction to a certain extent, and all of us have biases. I find the fact he calls himself the minister of propaganda oddly honest. Its great that you enjoy his casts, I do too.

I agree with you that it is difficult to to have a fruitful discussion when a party is unaware of their bias, purposely drives their position to the extreme end of things or they only have not explored the other side of the debate. I also find it frustrating, it clouds the truth of issues in a thick fog. You are right there are several that haunt this forum.

However, you have not laid down anything other than a cheap jab. Based on your post, I don't sense an open mind nor do I see an intelligent post countering Danes point of view. If you'd be glad to lay out an opposing statement than do it! Don't make excuses or ask another forum member to do the leg work for you. I'd love to read some of your insight.




I don't mind opinions as long as they're somewhat rational/reasonable with a hint of being subjective(and those opinions are by someone who plays the game well/understands it). But the things I have seen Dane endorse/write on certain topics regarding balance have made me lose faith in his opinion completely. He is a swell caster, but balance is not his department of strengths. So, that is why I said what I said, and providing statistics/points countering his own in that video would feel like a waste of time to me considering it is someone who is most likely biased.(However if you really want me too, I shall write up a 1 page report on how wrong Dane is)
22 Jul 2014, 22:57 PM
#293
avatar of TensaiOni

Posts: 198

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jul 2014, 21:29 PMCieZ

For those that don't know the Jp4 has better stats than the Su85.


Actually, JP4 has worse gun than SU-85 in terms of penetration, scatter and RoF.

It doesn't change the fact that by absolute terms (not taking into account cost, teching etc.) it's a better unit.
22 Jul 2014, 23:10 PM
#294
avatar of broodwarjc

Posts: 824

I don't like arguments against OKW of, "But they have 5 levels of Vet", yeah but they also have -33% fuel (as of patch 7/22/14). And a lot of their units need a TON of experience to Vet even once. Their early game is also the weakest, so yeah at the very end of the game when they are about to lose their units get a bit more powerful than other factions. Really fair.
22 Jul 2014, 23:23 PM
#296
avatar of Ducati
Benefactor 115

Posts: 164

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jul 2014, 22:41 PMVonIvan

I don't mind opinions as long as they're somewhat rational/reasonable with a hint of being subjective(and those opinions are by someone who plays the game well/understands it). But the things I have seen Dane endorse/write on certain topics regarding balance have made me lose faith in his opinion completely. He is a swell caster, but balance is not his department of strengths. So, that is why I said what I said, and providing statistics/points countering his own in that video would feel like a waste of time to me considering it is someone who is most likely biased.(However if you really want me too, I shall write up a 1 page report on how wrong Dane is)


You don't need to counter his points. Do it if you want to be part of this discussion.

However, I humbly suggest that if you're not going to participate in an on topic discussion, but you're simply going to trivialize someone else based on your own bias of that individual, that you keep your opinion to yourself.

22 Jul 2014, 23:26 PM
#297
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1

I don't like arguments against OKW of, "But they have 5 levels of Vet", yeah but they also have -33% fuel (as of patch 7/22/14). And a lot of their units need a TON of experience to Vet even once. Their early game is also the weakest, so yeah at the very end of the game when they are about to lose their units get a bit more powerful than other factions. Really fair.


5 levels of vet is not the only thing that compensates for their low fuel income.

There is also:
- Low teching cost. 120(160-40) fuel unlocks all units, abilities and upgrades for the OKW. This is extremely low compared to the other factions. The manpower cost is also low and you get some nice benefits like a healing/repair/AA gun station.
- Scavenge
- Diverse range of units in every tier. AT and AI units are present in all tiers. Simply spending your starting 40 fuel on T2 gives you the option to build a tank destroyer. This is something the other factions have to save up a lot of fuel for to even unlock.
- Resource conversion

The resource penalty for OKW is completely incorporated into their design. They have many benefits over the other factions to compensate for their low fuel income.
22 Jul 2014, 23:38 PM
#298
avatar of OZtheWiZARD

Posts: 1439

The amunnition gain change in the recent patch does make a difference. We will see how this will work out.
22 Jul 2014, 23:46 PM
#299
avatar of Inverse'd

Posts: 6

I for one would like to hear Danes thoughts on vcoh balance.
23 Jul 2014, 00:01 AM
#300
avatar of ThoseDeafMutes

Posts: 1026

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jul 2014, 17:24 PMKatitof

Because masses like to follow famous people, regardless if they are right or wrong(Hitler anyone?).


Did you just compare a man with questionable balance opinions to Hitler?
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