Soviets - A core faction discussion

I think that what needs to be done is a redesign of the soviet T1 building. I feel that, as things currently stand, penals need to be replaced with Strelky, or some other kind of regular army unit, and that these Strelky should become to baseline soviet infantry. (6- man squad with upgrades for 270-280 manpower). With this being done, conscripts can keep their role as a nonscaling "utility" infantry that should not be relied upon as the basis of your army. With this being done, next I believe the T1 building should also be home to several Strelky upgrades, such as a T2 paid unlock which will allow all Strelky squads to upgrade with weapons, such as 1 Dp to solidify their ranged firepower, and an upgrade for 2 PTRS rifles with AT nades ability for light anti armor support. Upgrades ike this will allow the Strelky squad to be formed into 2 distinct roles, and will allow them to be differentiated from conscripts, who serve as a utility and flanking force with oorah!

Once the Soviets get a solid baseline infantry, I believe it will be fair to slightly nerf the maxim into a cheaper, much less effective assault weapon; make it have the cost of an mg34, but with a higher damage potential at the expense of suppression. (Just an Idea) After this is done, a revision of the Soviet T3/4 will be in order.

I Agree most with an earlier post to make the T3/4 buildings one building for 60 fuel cost, with an additional 60 fuel to "unlock" T3 or T4. this will allow soviet players to select the Tier that they want, but not overly punish them for choosing a Tier that turns out to be ineffective in the current game.

Just a few thoughts, I look forward to hearing what you guys think.

The way i would rework soviets.

Combat engineers gain 4x ppsh upgrade for 90 munitions that also gives them 1.5 armor. (Basically making them as durable as a 6 man squad)

Conscripts get non doctrinal ppsh and DP.
DP upgrade you get if you get T1
PPSH upgrade you get if you go T2.

Penals not sure, maybe they get 6 svts and a 120 muni upgrade that gives them 2 flamethrowers? Might be crazy and batshit op, but not sure.

Idea here being that if you go T1 , you use combat engineer with ppsh and penals for close range, and DP conscripts for long range.

If you go T2, you use ppsh conscripts for close range, and maxims for long range.

Instead of a T3 building, you get a T3 + T4 building for 60 fuel, and 60 fuel to unlock each tier.

Unlocking both t3 + t4 gives you access to IS-2.


If such changes were implemented, then we could readjust maxims and snipers.

Im against the idea giving the Soviets easy access to all of their tiers in a single match.
This would make them too strong in my opinion. T34's backed up by SU85's and maxims supporting snipers? And all of that by a single player? No thanks.

Also, i think this would result in a rather boring and maybe even more boring meta in comparison to the meta that exists now.
It would look like this : unlock all tiers quickly, have everything to counter everything.

I think that goes against the current Soviet army design.

I, however, agree that somethings needs to be done against the cheese. Maxim or Sniper spam is really no fun to play against. Its also not fair.

You really need to be careful about changing or nerfing Soviet units. When looking at them from a statistic perspective, nearly all of their stock units are worse than their counterparts. Soviets need to rely on abilities or, simply put, cheese to counter things. That may be broken design, but the design needs to be fundamentally changed when you change the Soviet core units in more than a slight way. I also think that the call in system is broken right now and further highlights the problems of the Soviet faction.

This topic is a very sensitive one. Small changes wont do the job in my opinion. If anything, big changes are needed. And that results in balance problems. And that consequently results in tears in our beloved forums.

Changing Penals is the solution to Sovs infantry issues.

Just improve it so it can fill the long range gap over Cons, and reconcile the split between Guard/Shock/Non-callin Commanders with wide upgrade options.

I really would like to see Penals as a long range AI unit, and Conscripts being unchanged but able to upgrade to Strelki once vet3 is reached.

Changing Penals is the solution to Sovs infantry issues.

Just improve it so it can fill the long range gap over Cons, and reconcile the split between Guard/Shock/Non-callin Commanders with wide upgrade options.

While buffing penals to be long range would be good, penals being the core soviet infantry would just rather feel/look weird.

While buffing penals to be long range would be good, penals being the core soviet infantry would just rather feel/look weird.

And what makes you believe they would become core infantry?

They still are helpless against armor and arrive much later then any other base infantry so having a conscript squad before them or two is mandatory anyway.

What are penals role right now anyways? THey should really be what the conscripts are now, a cheap throwaway squad. Regular conscripts should become better.

suggestion: limit of having max 1 sniper squad on the field at any given time

And Soviet T1 was never seen again. Sniper is literally the only long-term investment in the tier, penals are just bad at any point in time and M3 only has value within the first few minutes of the game. A single sniper and M3 is not worth skipping out on ZiS and maxims.

Which would be a good impulse for giving penals some love that they deserve anyway. I didn`t mention penals (and other things) since my post was long enough anyway.

BTW you basically state that the only reason for building tier 1 is going for multiple sniper BS. While I mostly agree, that in itself is a problem, isn`t it? And my suggestion is a first step towards solution (even though primarily aimed at solving different issue).

Soviet vet 1 abilities will be another thread of mine at a later date. I want to focus on the core faction first. With the call in systems on Relic's radar the Soviet faction will be the one impacted the most. By addressing some of my recommendations the Soviet faction can be on a better footing.

Hey I love the tripwire, wtf. That's the most fun way to kill axis sniper. Since they reduced the AOE on Normal mines, I find that often times I get a better value out of 40mu in trpwire vs 30mu in mines. Much better chance to wipe squad and the trips don't stop the squad from moving forward into other trips much.

The role of penals should be changed to that of a probing or recon force. Give them added sight range and medium range damage. Reduce cost and upkeep to Incourage aggressive pushing at the start. Recon ability keeps them relevant all match.

As for conscripts they should be more of a long range defensive line unit behind their constructed cover. Much the way volks were in coh 1. Vet 2 cons should unlock ppsh or lmg upgrade based on player choice or doctrine for flavour. Upgrades are incentive to keep units alive and keep them relevant through the duration of the match.

The proposed tandem of penals medium range with recon Los would synergies well with long range defensive cons in cover. Use penals to scout areas around dug in conscripts or support vet two upgraded cons with ppsh for assault.

Time for an update.

Relic has further reduced the Soviet's anti tank capabilities by nerfing the button ability. This is the second such nerf in recent history.

Additionally the T34/76 has a bug corrected and now reloads slower which future reduces its effectiveness.

Conscripts received an adjustment which make them semi-effective mid range. I suppose this means that Penal's now do better damage at short and long ranges. Technically, the roles have been cleared up. However, it is not seen how this will have an impact in their performance (if any).

Consulting my crystal ball I suspect that in the 3v3 and the 4v4 game mode will continue to be awful with near 100% Axis searching and a lop sided win loss ratio.

Much rawr

Meanwhile, penals, T70 and SU76 keep being neglected by Relic.

Meanwhile, penals, T70 and SU76 keep being neglected by Relic.

SU-76 and partisans: Worst units in the game for about a year now.

Kubels are slightly hard to use? BUFF THEM TO THE MOON, BROTHERS.

SU-76 and partisans: Worst units in the game for about a year now.

ostruppen so great

ostruppen so great

After the recent changes?

Yea, they are pretty great for the cost.

After the recent changes?

Yea, they are pretty great for the cost.

Compared to irregulars or even (god forbid) Partisans? Literally anything is great.

I'd get more out of that ~200MP just building a cache and throwing molotovs.