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russian armor

Balance Wehrmacht vs. US

17 Jul 2014, 21:10 PM
#61
avatar of VonIvan

Posts: 2487 | Subs: 21

There are units that exploit the weaknesses of the US and close the gap early-mid game by increasing their losses. Obviously the US is strong early game and weak late game compared to Ost.

So far I got:

Sniper, 222, Assault grens, Stug III E


Sniper?

Meet Mechanized Doc for the Americans with the Steroid Jeep, which counters that nicely. Or just Spam riflez, flank sniper, insta-dead. Assault Grens? Meet AA Halftrack. StugE? Meet a Sherman.
US has, and always will dominate early game no matter what you try. Late game is where it is only weak and the OKW/Ostheer stronk.
17 Jul 2014, 21:42 PM
#62
avatar of lanciano

Posts: 210

I will.

It may be premature to say it, but the assgrens, 250 PzG, and stugs work pretty well against US rifles. The whole call-in doctrine tears them up and exploits their weaknesses as a faction.

It's ironic that the assgrens commander is now on free trial.

Yeah 250 PzG seem to be really good against US
17 Jul 2014, 21:57 PM
#63
avatar of Dullahan

Posts: 1384

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Jul 2014, 11:14 AMKatitof


I would love it if you could provide a rep of that.

As much as osttruppen fan I am, I don't find them much of a use at all as they can't do anything and are basically exp feeder for me, pretty much like overnerfed partisans.


I'll see if I can get a good one. I've been toying with a strat where I invest in t3 tanks and then just spam railway arty the rest of the game. Works pretty good against Americans since they don't have super heavy armour and a stug/pziv is more than enough AT.
17 Jul 2014, 23:26 PM
#64
avatar of Jaigen

Posts: 1130

There are units that exploit the weaknesses of the US and close the gap early-mid game by increasing their losses. Obviously the US is strong early game and weak late game compared to Ost.

So far I got:

Sniper, 222, Assault grens, Stug III E



Sniper and assult grens are a matter of map and skill but they are no hardcounters to a 720 mp disadvantage . and he can have shermans out when you have a stug e or even worse he is armor commander and uses the wolferine.


222? dude if he rushes to aa track and you rush to 222 you can only enjoy the 222 for 5 fuel.
20 Jul 2014, 05:06 AM
#65
avatar of coh2player

Posts: 1571

^^
Just pushed someone off most of the map in 5 minutes using 4 x assault gren spam on la gleize. Then got a 250 HT w/PzG and a 251 reinforce HT. Finished with a stug E.
20 Jul 2014, 07:44 AM
#66
avatar of S73v0

Posts: 522

I have changed my mind on the US vs Ostheer matchup. At first I thought it overwhelmingly favoured the US but since I don't have access to Mechanised or Rifle companies I don't have any counter to snipers and paks are so stronk against shermans.
21 Jul 2014, 07:19 AM
#67
avatar of coh2player

Posts: 1571

I have more experience now. Scratch the 222. I tried it twice and it didn't work (got countered).

Assgrens worked if properly used, 250 HT w/PzG works, Stug III E works. Puma is good, command panzer is good.

MG-42s become more important to use with grenadiers. Built more MG-42s than with other factions.

T3 is of course, good.
22 Jul 2014, 04:35 AM
#68
avatar of Oversloth

Posts: 48

I've found Assault Grenadiers coupled with StuG E's and then a Tiger works pretty well.

I don't think Imperial Dane has honestly played enough OH vs US to be able to comment yet on the balance, because his stance on Assault Gren's not being able to work vs US early game is way off.

They will destroy a Rifleman squad at close range, and if you're decent, you can get StuG E's out FAST, and they will just crap on US infantry.=
22 Jul 2014, 04:37 AM
#69
avatar of Oversloth

Posts: 48

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Jul 2014, 21:10 PMVonIvan

Sniper?

Meet Mechanized Doc for the Americans with the Steroid Jeep, which counters that nicely. Or just Spam riflez, flank sniper, insta-dead. Assault Grens? Meet AA Halftrack. StugE? Meet a Sherman.
US has, and always will dominate early game no matter what you try. Late game is where it is only weak and the OKW/Ostheer stronk.


Because Assault Gren's totally face AA halftrack's in the first 5 minutes of the game, when they are primarily used...

Totally man.
22 Jul 2014, 06:24 AM
#70
avatar of Thunderhun

Posts: 1617

^^

Little fun fact, the M15 CAN COME around 5-7 minutes, when you don't even have T2.
22 Jul 2014, 06:28 AM
#71
avatar of WhySooSerious

Posts: 1248

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jul 2014, 21:27 PMBidet
this poll can't be faire because there more than 80% of german player on this forum


Maybe you should play Germans and feel what everyone else here feels?
22 Jul 2014, 06:48 AM
#72
avatar of Porygon

Posts: 2779

I hate the M20 more than the M15AA.
That thing comes way too fast and able to rape 222 even with its top MG.

The M15AA is easier to lure into Pak or teller deathtrap.
22 Jul 2014, 07:04 AM
#73
avatar of Lucas Troy

Posts: 508

Needing a PAK 5 minutes into a 1 v 1 game is really shitty for the Wehr player, though. It'd be a different story if the AA HT arrived like 2-3 minutes later.
22 Jul 2014, 07:23 AM
#74
avatar of Oversloth

Posts: 48

Needing a PAK 5 minutes into a 1 v 1 game is really shitty for the Wehr player, though. It'd be a different story if the AA HT arrived like 2-3 minutes later.


I don't really find it any different to fighting Soviets.

You absolutely need the Pak 40 early imo vs them as well.
22 Jul 2014, 08:50 AM
#75
avatar of Jaigen

Posts: 1130



I don't really find it any different to fighting Soviets.

You absolutely need the Pak 40 early imo vs them as well.


Not as quickly and the soviets have to forgo nades and at nades for his conscripts. alos the t-70 is not nearly as powerful as the aa-track. But the real balance issue is that teching to the aa track cost no mp even the soviets need to sacrifice 400 mp to reach the t-70. Combine this with a stronger early game of the us and you have an imbalance vs the ostheer.

if you ask me the teching cost of the ostheer (including its buildings) should be slashed in half when it comes to mp.
31 Jul 2014, 13:14 PM
#76
avatar of General Kühn

Posts: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jul 2014, 18:18 PMand


How do you intend to kite someone who does not intend to follow you? Once you're in the late game, US got no chance of winning back map control.

The strong early game, weak late game is a horrible and frustrating design. It needs to go ASAP.


The thing is, that most Ostheer are down a lot on their V.P.'s before the Tiger gets called in, and therefore it becomes a cat and mouse game of capping V.P.'S, in my experiences.
31 Jul 2014, 14:39 PM
#77
avatar of atouba

Posts: 482

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Jul 2014, 20:09 PMJaigen
The issue is not can unit X counter unit Z. Because the ost has every tool needed to counter the am ones and do so cost effectively especially if you have the mobile defence doctrine.

The reason why this match up is unbalanced is early game economics. the fastest and least expensive tech AM vs the slowest and most expensive and slowest tech (ost)

to get to tier 2 ost player needs to sacrifice 400 mp. the am zero as they gain either a LT or CPT for free. thats a lot of mp early game. But the ost is forced to buy a pak to deal with the Stuart or the AA track it sets them back another 320 mp. The am on the other hand doesnt have to worry about enemy tanks for quite a while and flak and rifles can handle anything tier 2 ost. so the next fuel mp and ammo can be invested to acquire even more AI power.

In total the ost is set back nearly 720 mp in the very few minutes of the game. that is the key reason why the matchup is so god awfully imbalanced.

That's the key point. MP is the biggest issue of Ostheer.
31 Jul 2014, 15:04 PM
#78
avatar of SuperKeitel

Posts: 158

Whermarcht as OKW have lot of balance issue right now. I remember when i was loosing hard in vcoh, i was like 99% of the time "wow, ok i got skillowned, gg" but now its "omfg this noobspam raped me" this is just that allies need less skill for same effect
31 Jul 2014, 15:24 PM
#79
avatar of All Aces

Posts: 29

I've had some success with the Elite Troops doctrine against the US. I mainly build two MG's, depending on the map, and 1 gren squad. Then I get the sniper, and use troop training to vet 2 him. With vet 2, he has longer sight and range, and can also use his stun ability. I find the stun ability really helps the micro challenge because it allows you to get out of situations where they may be charging you with their riflemen.

Typically, the MG's can be effective enough, as long as you are constantly aware of their movements. With smoke grenades, they are pretty much useless, but quick displacement allows you to fend off any charge they may be doing through the smoke.

I still think the balance in this matchup is bad, but it is somewhat beatable as Wehr, as long as you are really on top of your game, or if your opponent is really off theirs.
31 Jul 2014, 17:11 PM
#80
avatar of General Kühn

Posts: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jul 2014, 21:27 PMBidet
this poll can't be faire because there more than 80% of german player on this forum


The fact that so many Germans aren't happy is enough.
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