Quick Question: Assault Grenadiers

I was observing the AG in one of the replays I was watching today and I felt they perform pretty well during the first few skirmishes. They seem to wipe un-vetted, un-teched Conscripts squads, but that is all I can say with confidence is true. They need a bit of micro to scurry behind infantry and properly bully them. The video I saw was a 1 v 1 seimosky, which meant infantry move path is easily read. Since it is easily read, it means AG can be prepped in good spot to begin engagements (for this map, it was hanging out at the cemetery). If it is larger maps, I could see AG being less capable of out-maneuvering players.

So what I really want to gain from this thread is posts that include opinions as well as supporting facts (if possible) from the posters. What do you think about the AG? Are they performing accordingly to their price? What weakness are there? Advantages? Possible exploits? Small bits and tips that could be useful?

You get 1 Assault Gren and hope for a successful flank in the first engagement. Thats all.

Well, early game they can win against conscripts, but later on use the to cap and flank weapon teams while grens and pgrens do the fighting.

They don't really scale, just as conscripts, but they are still best german flankers and building clearers.

You shouldn't really get more then one thou as a role of thumb.

Yea, they really don't scale well, but as said before 1 squad can make a BIG change in early-game. They deserve an upgrade IMO.

Umm, conscripts don't have any stock upgrades and assaults shouldn't have one either.

They do have a clear role for early and early mid game, but should be replaced by other infantry as the game progresses.

As I've said, they still are useful for building clearing and flanks due to their nades and sprint.

It's been a while but I've always thought that Assgrens stunk, and PzG were more useful. The Assgren DPS is lower than the PzG, and their only advantage was one extra man. Making one AG in the beginning was OK but once the PzG building was up there was no point.

Has anyone used AssGrens against rifle squads? I want to use the stug E against the rifles, but I'm afraid assgrens will just get wasted by american rifles at close range.

Has anyone used AssGrens against rifle squads? I want to use the stug E against the rifles, but I'm afraid assgrens will just get wasted by american rifles at close range.

StuG E works like a charm.
Not sure about AGs themselves. The relation should be similar as to penals and AGs were loosing to them, so I'd expect the same here, unless you want to use them together with MG42, which does make sense as you can suppress and move in for the sweep.

I like them and would build 4 of the things, but I have not played OH much since WFA came out


They were never great in late game, and I expect they are worse now (allies gear up to kill SPs, FJs and UberSols so they should eat Agrens)


However everything else in that doctrine is solid to good now, even the Mech Group

I used them alot before WF armies came out. Now I have no clue how they perform since I'm learning USF but Assgrens were pretty solid.

The trick is (was) to ignore the "rule of thumb" and get three. They ALWAYS flank and work in twos (squads). Then I'm getting into my strat but that's basically it for the very very early game.

Well 3 vet AG's are pretty beast, but its really hard to vet them so i suggest give them StG uprgade(switching all mp40 to stg's) unlocking after battle phase 2 for better scaling(it would cost 90 or 120 muni)

I find them more like meatshields. They only really shine when you spam the call-in like crazy so you can have as many as like seven squads to overpower the enemy. This is obviously risky, since HMGs can give them the business, but I've seen it work- no points means no resources for the enemy. It's also highly reliant on allies doing other things to make up for the lost manpower; we won only because we backed him up all the way, making sure those HMGs get knocked out by our supporting units. A player that spams Assault Grenadiers is either taking a hard gamble by his own or with his allies. If he fails, you're basically playing 3v4, or whatever.

Overall, they're great if used carefully and in conjunction with other units. If they fail you're in real trouble.

I use them as part of my standard BO versus Soviets. I build two squads early. They are super effective against Conscripts and can waste an entire squad of them quite easily. Against Penals, they can get beaten without Grenadier support. Against Riflemen, I don't even bother. The Riflemen eat them up when they are closing the gap, so I don't use them versus Americans.

They are meant to give you an edge in the early game. They can be viable in the mid or late if you use combined arms. For instance, if someone has a hard point in Semoisky in the centre, bombard with mortars or artillery, send in a tank or something heavy, and use your Assault Grenadiers to sweep in and mop up weakened infantry and/or weapons teams. They are generally not that effective though at that stage of the game.

Shock Troops absolutely annihilate them, though. Never send them against those guys.

imo, with all the counter sturmpio tactics that everyone is applying now, i'd rather not use assgrens early on.

but have anyone tried using them at midgame to flank around maxims and lone conscripts capping squads. i can see these guys beating the hell out of lone cappers except shocks or maybe a microed guards squad.

not to mention they have sprint so they can get into lethal range faster, that might provide an edge over pgrens who are little bit more expensive but having more firepower.

Mine are usually still around by mid-game, but they are up against much stiffer competition at that point. They can still be useful to flank and cap, just less so with all the heavier stuff around then.

They reinforce for 28 as opposed to the Grenadiers 30 and have five men making them ideal for flanking, de-crewing and re-manning set-up teams.

Picking up shreks or flamethrowers can also increase their lethality quite a bit with sprint.

From the general consensus, I'm guessing the AG doesn't exactly tilt towards over or under-powered. I'm therefore hoping they are in their place in the balance and perform reliably in their main purpose.

I tried a few rounds of AI (I don't want to troll other players with commanders I'm not familiar with), and I can say the AI ability of this commander early game is definitely reliable. Not strong enough for me to be calling OP, but definitely getting the job then when executed properly.

I get a headache when I go against US infantry though, since unless I get Vetted squads, a BAR is enough to make my squad weak against them. Without the Vet or BARS in the equation, standard AG vs RM is usually favorable to the AG when gaps are quickly closed in (via micro or prepped ambush). If the RM doesn't snipe a model in their the first two volleys, the AG is assured to force a retreat (though they will be losing 2-3 squad members).

The additional PG Halftrack call-in is yet another decent AI unit, and I usually yank the PG out of the halftrack and let flamer Pioneers inside instead. Then turn the PG to double shrecks for a bit of AT (who needs them for AI when I got AG?)

I tried the multiple AG squads and they perform decently. When in pairs of two, they quickly wipe out any infantry when standing still to shoot after distance is closed-in. Running and shooting seems to perform sub-par during my limited time trying them.

I skipped tech buildings and went directly for BP3 because I felt the call-in was great so I had no need to build other units to compensate. I do lack a bit in the suppression department, which I often compensated with bunkers (I'm surprised AG can build them) and wires by Pioneers. Once I reach BP3, I get 2 Stugs and a P4. Stug for sniping tanks and infantry alike, while P4 for flanking particularly pesky targets.

The major flaws I had with this commander was the painful early retreats if I got suppressed. Another was the blatant lack of ammunition because I often used sprint and grenades more than I should. The AT comes a bit late when I skip tech and I have had awkward moments when tanks are out and I don't have something to shoot at it with anything other than 1 PG with shrecks (and when I don't plan ammunition properly, I don't even have shrecks).

Edit: BP3 as in tier 3 building

How about if they add Ass grens to more commanders? I think it fits in German Infantry or Blitzkrieg.

It is not wise to skip all of the tiers and rely on the assault grens, if the opponent rushes an m5 quadmount or the US halftrack, you will feel the pain. It's better just to use one or two and go the normal teching route.