OKW Panther

Am I the only one who is a little disappointed with the inclusion of this unit?

Taking aside the fact that it is very cost inefficient and even if (when...) the Panther receives a buff, I feel that it is just not needed - the Puma does a better job against light/medium armour and the Jagdpanzer/Jagdtiger do a good enough job against the heavier stuff.


What should be in there instead?

I want to say the Panzer IV but this is also somewhat un-original... The Hummel/Nashorn, the StuH? Maybe even another infantry unit?

Thoughts?

The PV exists to counter the theoretical Sherman spam that never happens, because taking aside the fact that they are very cost inefficient and even if (when...) they receive a buff, everyone feels that they are just not needed - the M115A does a better job against light/medium armour and the Jackson do a good enough job against the heavier stuff.

The PV's exists because they don't only fight Americans, so the lightweight Sherman isn't the only thing to worry about. The T-34/85 is the beastiest medium tank in the game, and even with the PV OKW has trouble countering it, although that's mostly because they have trouble actually getting a PV on the field. There's also the KV series and the IS-2 and ISU-152.

I guess with all the cheese strategies, people forget the true might that Soviets may have access to late-game.

It's not a bad tank, it's just that it's really expansive and difficult to get as okw.

panzer IV J with the all options for the fancy pants stuff as non doc. Panther is fine.

or a Panzer III 75mm short.

It's really expensive and difficult to get as any faction! I'm not sure about OKW, but I recall it easily costing over 400 fuel for Ostheer. The costs I calculated were:

T1 Building (10)
T2 Research (45)
T2 Building (15)
T2 Vehicles (45)
T3 Research (55)
T4 Research (60)
T4 Building (30)
T4 Panther (175)
Total Cost: 435 Fuel

It's really expensive and difficult to get as any faction! I'm not sure about OKW, but I recall it easily costing over 400 fuel for Ostheer. The costs I calculated were:

T1 Building (10)
T2 Research (45)
T2 Building (15)
T2 Vehicles (45)
T3 Research (55)
T4 Research (60)
T4 Building (30)
T4 Panther (175)
Total Cost: 435 Fuel

It also cost OKW about 405 fuel.


Except the price per panther is even more expensive.

I wouldn't mind the panther giving a slight fuel decreased to maybe, 165-170 fuel, they are not that hard to kill tbh

It also cost OKW about 405 fuel.


Except the price per panther is even more expensive.

Not really if you include possible scavenged fuel and fuel conversion.

I'm able to pump panther around 14 min, which is much faster then other Wehr.
OKW panther is even viable for 1v1 as you'll always have the building, its just a matter of choice, do you go for puma+stuka or panther.

Not really if you include possible scavenged fuel and fuel conversion.

I'm able to pump panther around 14 min, which is much faster then other Wehr.
OKW panther is even viable for 1v1 as you'll always have the building, its just a matter of choice, do you go for puma+stuka or panther.

14 minutes if you're playing against a dead chicken maybe. Or build NOTHING that will require fuel + building directly T3 + giving fuel conversion pretty soon. That will leave you with just infantry on the field + 1 panther in the middle game (maybe). Wow, what an army.
Yesterday I lost 2 OKW Panthers against 3 t34/85 in a sec - how did they die so quiclky.... beats me. My luck was that it was a 3v3 and my Ostheer partners covered the gap, otherwise it would have been gg.

Okw Panther, Ostheer panther, whatever panther.... is still an underperforming unit. Even ostheer players don't use it more than before. The only true panther users are OKW players because they don't really have other choice, but for OKW it is even more underperforming because OKW is immersed in poverty and a Panther will be verry hard to replace.

175 fuel for an Ostheer Panther is insane already.

175 (265) Fuel for OKW panther is beyond insane for such a shitty tank.

14 minutes if you're playing against a dead chicken maybe. Or build NOTHING that will require fuel + building directly T3 + giving fuel conversion pretty soon. That will leave you with just infantry on the field + 1 panther in the middle game (maybe). Wow, what an army.
Yesterday I lost 2 OKW Panthers against 3 t34/85 in a sec - how did they die so quiclky.... beats me. My luck was that it was a 3v3 and my Ostheer partners covered the gap, otherwise it would have been gg.

Okw Panther, Ostheer panther, whatever panther.... is still an underperforming unit. Even ostheer players don't use it more than before. The only true panther users are OKW players because they don't really have other choice, but for OKW it is even more underperforming because OKW is immersed in poverty and a Panther will be verry hard to replace.

Its not like you'll need tons of early armor against soviets anyway and in US case it pretty much depends on his choice, but generally you'll want that puma vs USF asap.(not flak ht, this one is greatly overrated).

Pretty much what Katitof said. If you want a panther, just pump one out- OKW was almost unparalleled freedom to get what they want when they want it. You just have to be very certain what you want- your unit choice is limited, every one has to count.

Shrecks and Racketen are enough to deal with all the early light vehicles. Shermans can be forced off the same way- though it will incur losses.

Personally, I like to go for a Jagdpanzer instead. Better reload, great range, cheaper. You can go T1/4 and into a Jagd and have it in time for enemy armour that needs it. Volks, Sturm, Obers and Jager are plenty to win infantry fights.

honestly, for 175 fuel, the panther deserves some anti infantry potential i think.

As okw, it is always better to just spam pumas rather than get a jagpanzer.

Howabout a different version on the Panther for OKW?

There were the Panther A,D and G models, I'm not intimate with the differences between them but I'm sure the differences would be big enough to warrant a differentiation and thus inclusion of some kind of different model.

Panzer IIIs do sound good as well, preferably the side skirted and 5cm gun armed versions (hell, just do 2 variants, upgradable for a small amount each...

It's not expensive when you use salvage and a great tank in general. Worth its prize.

The Panther would feel better if it was not so inaccurate combined with a horribly low attack speed. If it misses one time too often you can already forget the fight.

Anyway, regarding the role of the Panther in OKW army. The Puma is great against light vehicles and can even help against medium tanks when it is not on its own, but you have to be very careful with it and without veterancy it is not very reliable at damaging tanks, unless you can get into the rear.

The Panther can take at least a few shots and is usually a bit more reliable against bigger tanks than the Puma (although as I said it could be better).

Now the Jagdpanzer can actually do the same, maybe even better to some degree. However it has a few weaknesses; first, it is more vulnerable if it gets flanked, second it has trouble on maps with a lot of obstacles where your enemy might be around corners etc., third it actually has problems to fight really big Soviet tanks head on. While it can do fine against an IS-2 by just staying out of range, it does not do very well against SU-85s and ISU-152s.

The Panther may do better in some of these scenarios, although as I agree it could perform better as well. In situations where the Panther doesn't suffice anymore, especially in team games, you probably have then the King Tiger or Jagdtiger, but those things have such restrictive costs that they are also mostly only seen in team games anyway.

Howabout a different version on the Panther for OKW?

There were the Panther A,D and G models, I'm not intimate with the differences between them but I'm sure the differences would be big enough to warrant a differentiation and thus inclusion of some kind of different model.

Excellent idea, by the way.
And I propose Panther A - a lighter model of Panther. It should cost less while being more expensive than a PZIV, and have also some AI abilities. Overall, it can be closer to a PZIV performances.
Result: everybody happy.

I don't get you people. You can take almost 3 T-34/76 at once with Panther and you complain about it? Position yourself correctly and you will be able to win every engagement.
In 1v1 I had US player attacking me with like 6 Shermans and I managed to win this engagement with the help of Rocket AT.
You say OKW is fuel starved but only because it got mechanics to negate this. If you're not using salvage or resource conversion than who you got to blame?


Check this replay and see how many tanks I managed to field:

•  
  

  0

  VS

  commiepig Smigi

  SSOSSO Oz

  22-0 (Germany vs Brazil :D)

  by: OZtheWiZARD map: Minsk Pocket

  5

  -

It was 2v2, I know, but still.


Damn, there was a patch. I don't think this one is working anymore.