zz going to explain a bit how FIRE works. When you infantry gets totally rekt and dies instantly to fire its due to a critical. A critical which triggers usually when you are below a certain hit point.
When the unit gets to a lower hit point the critical will trigger more frequent.
More damage > lowers hp faster > triggers critical quicker > entity dies in a fire.
Less damage > lowers hp slower > triggers critical slower > entity die slower in a fire.
Essentially if your squad was already damage it could still potential get one shotted by the KV-8 Flame shot. This has not changed.
What is the biggest thing your going to notice with the KV-8 with its damage reduced? Well it wont kill buildings ridiculously fast. That is going to be the most noticeable difference with this change.
To answer to Napalm with the damage being reduced previously to 40 to 27; is when we changed how fire damage worked and how the critical system was applied to units. Technically it was pretty much the same thing but done differently.
KV-8 40% damage nerf?
Posts: 102 | Subs: 22
༼ つ ◕_◕༽つ B r a d _RE
9 Jul 2014, 18:49 PM
#62
Posts: 4928
I always thought flame crits were random, so I learned something today.
At once point are infantry able to be flame critted? 50%? 35, 20?
At once point are infantry able to be flame critted? 50%? 35, 20?
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
9 Jul 2014, 18:51 PM
#63
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
I always thought flame crits were random, so I learned something today.
At once point are infantry able to be flame critted? 50%? 35, 20?
At 100%.
Probability increases with hp loss.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
Posts: 102 | Subs: 22
At 100%.
Probability increases with hp loss.
more or less this.
༼ つ ◕_◕༽つ B r a d _RE
9 Jul 2014, 18:57 PM
#65
Posts: 4928
Oh, so they start random and get more consistent. Fair enough, I was half-right 
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
9 Jul 2014, 20:27 PM
#66
Posts: 1595 | Subs: 2
Time. Time is an asset in this game. The longer something takes to be destroyed or die the more time the opposing player has time to react. Remember the day's of the German MG42 bunkers that required a ZiS to destroy? It would take a very long time for that bunker to go down and the risk to that ZiS dying in the process was very high.
Now, the KV8 is going to take a longer time to destroy or kill it's target. The opposing player will have time to react and send a hard counter (which there is plenty of I might add). The KV8 has become less effective at it's job.
I'd argue that the KV8 should get a price reduction to reflect its current performance.
PS: Pretty cool to see bC_ posting here. Thanks dude.
Now, the KV8 is going to take a longer time to destroy or kill it's target. The opposing player will have time to react and send a hard counter (which there is plenty of I might add). The KV8 has become less effective at it's job.
I'd argue that the KV8 should get a price reduction to reflect its current performance.
PS: Pretty cool to see bC_ posting here. Thanks dude.
The views and opinions expressed in my posts and topics are solely those of the Napalm. These views and opinions do not necessarily represent those of Relic, the developers, The Angry Bears and/or any/all contributors to this site.
10 Jul 2014, 02:05 AM
#67
4 Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2
used it a few times after the patch. dont really see the difference. probably because i didnt use much until very before the patch but it still seems very functional.
 | Playercard of Bo-Bobby Lion | |||||||||||||||
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10 Jul 2014, 02:28 AM
#68
Posts: 2487 | Subs: 21
Time. Time is an asset in this game. The longer something takes to be destroyed or die the more time the opposing player has time to react. Remember the day's of the German MG42 bunkers that required a ZiS to destroy? It would take a very long time for that bunker to go down and the risk to that ZiS dying in the process was very high.
Now, the KV8 is going to take a longer time to destroy or kill it's target. The opposing player will have time to react and send a hard counter (which there is plenty of I might add). The KV8 has become less effective at it's job.
I'd argue that the KV8 should get a price reduction to reflect its current performance.
PS: Pretty cool to see bC_ posting here. Thanks dude.
I agree, a slight cost decrease is in order.
10 Jul 2014, 02:47 AM
#69
Posts: 139
zz going to explain a bit how FIRE works. When you infantry gets totally rekt and dies instantly to fire its due to a critical. A critical which triggers usually when you are below a certain hit point.
When the unit gets to a lower hit point the critical will trigger more frequent.
More damage > lowers hp faster > triggers critical quicker > entity dies in a fire.
Less damage > lowers hp slower > triggers critical slower > entity die slower in a fire.
Essentially if your squad was already damage it could still potential get one shotted by the KV-8 Flame shot. This has not changed.
What is the biggest thing your going to notice with the KV-8 with its damage reduced? Well it wont kill buildings ridiculously fast. That is going to be the most noticeable difference with this change.
To answer to Napalm with the damage being reduced previously to 40 to 27; is when we changed how fire damage worked and how the critical system was applied to units. Technically it was pretty much the same thing but done differently.
#1 Thanks for the detailed explanation.
#2 I do understand why you might feel zzz about people overreacting and freaking out about changes at times but
#3 You have to admit, the game is not at all transparent or easy for people to figure out on their own as far as the stats under the hood or the damage of things so interpreting balance changes can be pretty hard for 99% of the player base at times. Especially given how much things have already been re-worked over the past year.
10 Jul 2014, 05:46 AM
#70
Posts: 301
So, you guys used nerfhammer to KV8 instead of working with some antifire defence of OKW buildings. Cool. Can we get same aproach to Sturmtiger? Couse you know, it killing units in 1 shot.
Or your logic here - KV-8 was designed as "hard counter" and Stiger was designed as "eraser"?
Same with IL-2 and Incinirate. Why it can't force germans faction to bleed on mp? But in other side they got all the stuff(offmaps especially) to bleed the allies. It was designed in this way?
btw - why Duffy always saying you work with community and listen to them? But only thing I see here "the zz" and "lockin' thread" aproach.
Or your logic here - KV-8 was designed as "hard counter" and Stiger was designed as "eraser"?
Same with IL-2 and Incinirate. Why it can't force germans faction to bleed on mp? But in other side they got all the stuff(offmaps especially) to bleed the allies. It was designed in this way?
btw - why Duffy always saying you work with community and listen to them? But only thing I see here "the zz" and "lockin' thread" aproach.
10 Jul 2014, 09:03 AM
#71
Posts: 807
hahaha.... "no-brainer unit...".... like KT is ? or obersoldaten are ? or stuka zu fuss is? cmon...
When did you see last time a KT? I never saw it. I don't even know how it looks so I can't counter you by telling that is a slow moving, slow aiming, slow... unit unlike KV-8.
By the time Obersoldaten appear, you have all the counters in the world against them.
Stuka zu fuss? Yeah, if it was an ostheer unit, we could talk about OP or no brainer or whatever. But at OKW, if you choose to build that, well... GL with the opponent's armor because you won't get armor for yourself any time soon.
Someone said that you just need 2 paks. Lol, really? They were decrewed with ease by KV-8. You just had to make the "effort" to move the KV a little between/around them for let's say... 4-5 seconds.
They just balanced this unit, this is what they did. They only broke the principle that a nerf should come with a cost decrease (in this case a SMALL cost decrease).
10 Jul 2014, 09:06 AM
#72
Posts: 807
Good Job german fanboys especially SSWhiney next useless unit for sovjets... thank you very much
You're welcome. Any time.
10 Jul 2014, 09:33 AM
#73
Posts: 135
I would rather have had its speed reduced instead so that it couldn´t chase retreating squads and escape enemy armor so easily. From gameplay point of view I hope it will not become a sherman crocodile v2 in the future.
10 Jul 2014, 10:10 AM
#74
Posts: 301
Someone said that you just need 2 paks. Lol, really? They were decrewed with ease by KV-8. You just had to make the "effort" to move the KV a little between/around them for let's say... 4-5 seconds.
Do you know about positioning of 2 Paks against tanks or you just a-move them everytime? Common, 1 Pak in the middle, second in the rear. Jesus...
10 Jul 2014, 11:13 AM
#75
Posts: 577
#3 You have to admit, the game is not at all transparent or easy for people to figure out on their own as far as the stats under the hood or the damage of things so interpreting balance changes can be pretty hard for 99% of the player base at times. Especially given how much things have already been re-worked over the past year.
That's it. Interpreting balance changes IS pretty hard since a big part doesn't even read them correctly. Yet a ton of people think or assume they know what that means and then spam around false information or complain about non-existing things.
10 Jul 2014, 11:36 AM
#76
Posts: 987
Do you know about positioning of 2 Paks against tanks or you just a-move them everytime? Common, 1 Pak in the middle, second in the rear. Jesus...
Drive through flame the first, drive past, flame the second, ???? PROFIT.
You would have to have the second pak close behind the first for it to definitely hit while the KV8 flames the first. Therefore it wouldn't be a long drive to flame the second.
Have you never seen the Benny-Hill videos made by good players who had to face the KV menace? Where it just drives around flaming everything with impunity? It was a ridiculous unit.
Let's keep it constructive
10 Jul 2014, 11:53 AM
#77
Posts: 692
some of you jokers make the KV8 sound like it was the fist of an angry communist god and won games all by itself
10 Jul 2014, 12:00 PM
#78
Posts: 1701
So, you guys used nerfhammer to KV8 instead of working with some antifire defence of OKW buildings. Cool. Can we get same aproach to Sturmtiger? Couse you know, it killing units in 1 shot.
Or your logic here - KV-8 was designed as "hard counter" and Stiger was designed as "eraser"?
Same with IL-2 and Incinirate. Why it can't force germans faction to bleed on mp? But in other side they got all the stuff(offmaps especially) to bleed the allies. It was designed in this way?
btw - why Duffy always saying you work with community and listen to them? But only thing I see here "the zz" and "lockin' thread" aproach.
lol this guy comparing KV8 and Sturmtiger *cause it killing units in 1 shot*
Blaue Division - The best corp
BPX - Black Phoenix, Clan leader.
BPX - Black Phoenix, Clan leader.
10 Jul 2014, 12:09 PM
#79
Posts: 1130
some of you jokers make the KV8 sound like it was the fist of an angry communist god and won games all by itself
it did
horrida flamma bella
10 Jul 2014, 12:24 PM
#80
Posts: 301
Drive through flame the first, drive past, flame the second, ???? PROFIT.
You would have to have the second pak close behind the first for it to definitely hit while the KV8 flames the first. Therefore it wouldn't be a long drive to flame the second.
Yep, if you have a maphack, you can always drive to second pak. But if you don't use a map hack, you need time to react with micro and send KV-8 to the next PAK what is covering first.
Seems like you guys always blobing your units and only crying for nerf then it doesn't work...
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