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The M1919 is too ridiculous

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braciszek
8 Jul 2014, 04:41 AM
#21
avatar of braciszek

Posts: 2053

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Jul 2014, 04:37 AMBrachiaraidos


They're stat identical to an MG42- jacking their individual price up high would be a damn hard sell. Mg42, too, don't need any sort of a research cost- and commander specific unlocks never do.

It'd be pretty unreasonable to force either of those on the M1919.


It still is a bit silly that its a complete replacement of the BAR when it should be supplementary... and doesnt the lmg42 upgrade require battlephase 1? (But that doesnt mean much, anyways). Perhaps only riflemen should wield it as well - to counter its complete replacement of the BAR.
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Porygon
8 Jul 2014, 04:47 AM
#22
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Posts: 2779

Only Rifles can activate the suppression ability (for free), Lt, RE, or even Major with M1919 can't suppress.

Maybe a muni cost like vCOH BAR suppressive fire will do.
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Speculator
8 Jul 2014, 06:15 AM
#23
avatar of Speculator

Posts: 157

I think we should note that the US 1919 defensive stance requires the squad to be out of combat in order to activate meaning they've just just replaced an offensive unit for defensive. I haven't run into much issue with Gren + lmg42. Since they can't move, one rifle nade takes out multiple units (sometimes squad wipes if you're lucky) and then push in your lmg42. An ISG/mortar also ruins their day.
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BeardedOaf
8 Jul 2014, 09:18 AM
#24
avatar of BeardedOaf

Posts: 13

I have yet to watch the replay in question yet but plan to do it when I get a chance but from my experience of playing the US, the M1919 MG's are one of the few things that make the US riflemen decent late game. I find riflemen with Bar's melt in the face of German para's, Obersoldaten, MG42/G43 grenadiers or mass Panzerfusilers with G43 late game and I need to use this doctrine with the m1919's to keep riflemen useful late game imo.

Also as other posters have said when set-up they make prime targets for mortars, grenades, flak halftracks and the like. Saying that I will watch this replay and comment again later.
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Bulgakov
8 Jul 2014, 10:15 AM
#25
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Posts: 987

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Jul 2014, 04:17 AMBrachiaraidos



If they made suppression ability tied, perhaps that would help? When in defensive stance, they can do a 'suppression fire' ability, locking them to target one squad for the next X seconds.

They would remain capable of pushing one single squad off, but a stationary rifle squad with 120muni sunk into it alongside commander bonuses probably should, really.


That's a good solution. Make it so they can supress one unit but if you give them a new command (eg change target the ability ends.

I think it's good that a doctrinal upgrade comes with a special ability but it's currently a bit too good.

Either a small muni cost or a long cooldown after the ability (if it's free from muni cost) or a pack-up time (not set-up) should be included. So If you flank and nade them, there is a consequence for not microing.



Everyone who is saying "Ermahgerd, get tanks, derp" needs to post some replays of them getting tanks when their opponent has T3. Or just post their player cards so we can how often they've had to play against this.


Let's keep it constructive
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vuko_zrno
8 Jul 2014, 10:33 AM
#26
avatar of vuko_zrno
Patrion 26

Posts: 64

maybe if the doctrinal choice just changed the bar upgrade with the M1919 upgrade. so after you choose the infantry comander, the bar upgrade disapears and instead you can upgrade to M1919 for lets say the same cost, or a little bit more. i dont get the point of the bars upgrade when choosing this comander, its a button that no one uses.
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OZtheWiZARD
8 Jul 2014, 11:12 AM
#27
avatar of OZtheWiZARD

Posts: 1439

Make the suppression as a "click on a target to active" ability that costs some munition. Similar how Guards button works.

On the side note US force needs to be toned down. Their early game is very strong, their mid game is devastating and their late game is lacking no doubts but the advantage they got from early and mid game usually let them to seal the deal.
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MilkaCow
8 Jul 2014, 13:04 PM
#28
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Posts: 577

It's no LMG but a MMG - medium machine gun. The defensive stance is in to show that this MG can act as a light machine gun, but also as heavy machine gun (setup).

I personally would slightly buff the M1919A6, give it a slower rotation but make it take two squad slots. One for the M1919A6 and another for a M1 Carbine or whatever to symbolize the guy carrying the ammunition. Of course increase the cost in line of the changes. That would make it easier to balance the squads (as right now having 1 is not that strong, but 2 are really strong) and it would also prevent the really ugly defensive positions (M1919A6 + Bazooka).
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Burts
8 Jul 2014, 13:28 PM
#29
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Posts: 1702

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Jul 2014, 13:04 PMMilkaCow
It's no LMG but a MMG - medium machine gun. The defensive stance is in to show that this MG can act as a light machine gun, but also as heavy machine gun (setup).

I personally would slightly buff the M1919A6, give it a slower rotation but make it take two squad slots. One for the M1919A6 and another for a M1 Carbine or whatever to symbolize the guy carrying the ammunition. Of course increase the cost in line of the changes. That would make it easier to balance the squads (as right now having 1 is not that strong, but 2 are really strong) and it would also prevent the really ugly defensive positions (M1919A6 + Bazooka).
]


Yes please. This is a good suggestion.
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WarMonkey
9 Jul 2014, 04:04 AM
#30
avatar of WarMonkey

Posts: 101

really just needs the ability and suppression removed. the gun by itself is very good.

though would be nice to make sure the gun stats are actually meant to be long range (as tootip suggests). as it is, it seems to do equal damage at any range
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Jinseual
9 Jul 2014, 06:13 AM
#31
avatar of Jinseual

Posts: 598

360 degrees suppression ability's should be gone. There is no flanking these units are even throwing a grenade. That's pretty nuts considering that the mgs do a lot of damage. The airborne squad can also do the same except they spend 20 munitions.

I don't think Relic is ever going to remove the ability since they never do remove abilities, they probably going to nerf that to nothing because of how over performing it is, or they should make it like the BARs in vCoH which the suppression cost 60 munitions or something like that, but at least in vCoH the German MG42s were better.

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steel
9 Jul 2014, 06:17 AM
#32
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Posts: 1963 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Jul 2014, 04:07 AMJHeartless


What other non doctrinal infantry units do USF have? No infantry should require an armored response. See the post above.
Well said young lad. It's silly that you need a flamer HT just to counter that rifle squad with that M1919.

M1919 LMG = The greatest LMG in the whole game. With a rate of fire of 600 rounds per minute, it has the power to kill enemy infantry before they get a chance to shoot. Useful for getting those annoying ninja cappers out of your house (territory). Buy now at your local weapon rack for 60 munitions. If you buy now, we will also include a free suppression ability that is worth 280 manpower. A 280 manpowerand 60 munitions worth of items all for 60 munitions.

Guaranteed to work first time or your munitions back.
_____________________________________________________________________________
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Hirmetrium
9 Jul 2014, 07:36 AM
#33
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Patrion 14

Posts: 179

The ability makes you a massive grenade and mortar magnet. Once entered, you cannot leave in a fight - that means a single grenade will force a retreat.

Seems pretty fair to me.
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PanzerErotica
10 Jul 2014, 10:54 AM
#34
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Posts: 135

Might be slightly off-topic but aren´t bar and m1919 a bit too similar in their role, with the latter just being better? For the sake of discussion, what if m1919 was replaced with thompson smg upgrade, for some diversity?
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MilkaCow
10 Jul 2014, 11:00 AM
#35
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Posts: 577

M1919A6 is a long range focused LMG profile weapon, which means it deals most damage on long range, can't be fired on the move.
BAR is a short/mid range focused AR profile weapon, which means it deals most damage on short range and can be fired on the move.
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Cyridius
10 Jul 2014, 11:07 AM
#36
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Posts: 627

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Jul 2014, 10:54 AMPanzerErotica
Might be slightly off-topic but aren´t bar and m1919 a bit too similar in their role, with the latter just being better? For the sake of discussion, what if m1919 was replaced with thompson smg upgrade, for some diversity?


That wouldn't be adding diversity, that would just be giving American infantry something they don't need. If they want CQC, just buy some BARs.
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Arclyte
10 Jul 2014, 12:30 PM
#37
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Posts: 692

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Jul 2014, 10:54 AMPanzerErotica
Might be slightly off-topic but aren´t bar and m1919 a bit too similar in their role, with the latter just being better? For the sake of discussion, what if m1919 was replaced with thompson smg upgrade, for some diversity?


no, BAR beats the m1919 at close range

m1919 is better at 15+ meters
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jkaiser3287
10 Jul 2014, 13:21 PM
#38
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Posts: 1

1919 needs nerfed. Whenever I see one, I found the only thing that counters is the walking stuka. I don't bother using ISG's because that 400 manpower invested needs to go to FJ's or Obers and stuka provides more utility and is faster, by the time the ISG puts in enough work, my AI would be dead. If I see one in defensive stance and I don't have a stuka yet, I don't even bother with that area.
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