A Versatile Army... Why no "Reward?"

Hi All I'm a casual player of coh/coh2 and i always had doubts about the mechanics and the strategies behind this game!

I try to explay my self in the easiest way because English in not my strength.

Why build a versatile army, whith differents units, give less "reward" than spam or make only one kind of unit?
I know that in a game with so few type of units is mandatory make 2/3 of the same one but in coh2 is almost all about spam!!!!

Well is an exaggeration, but is the first period conscript spam was the most reliable tactics for soviet, then m3, now maxim or what else. Then also for ostheer grens spam became the best thing to do. Even with the new faction: riflemen spam/blob and for okw the best tactics seems to be the panzerfusilier spam!

About me this is wrong, even just the idea is wrong! Coh2 is a rts/strategy game but where is the strategy if i just blob everything i have and i rush into the enemy face!

Is this a relic policy to make the thing easier? Why not make some kind of malus if i keep too many unit together (or a aim bonus if my enemy attacks with more than 2/3 units).
Relic should push to make the game more tactical, player should think about flank, make different strategies, not always the same!

Anyone have my thoughts? Let me know

PS. This is not another topic about: "ohhhh this is op, ohh nerf that!1!!!111"" i wanna just see if i'm the only one who think that coh2 lacks in strategy

A versatile army is generally way more powerful than just spamming but requires a lot more micro and it really depends on the skill of the player to make it work.

I'm definitely no pro, but i feel it depends on the factions design: Wehrmacht and Oberkommando seem to be more rewarding to the players using combined arms than soviet (and US, but i'm not sure about that, i don't have enough experience in CoH2 PvP, and definitely not enough experience as a Soviet), but i'm probably biased. I'm sure pro soviet players are using combined arms in one form or another, but the faction design seems centered around cheesy spams, be it maxims, m3, and call-ins, yet noone is to blame, except the guys in charge of the design and balancing of the game.

Blobbing only works to the extent of the opposing player's ability to hard counter the blob with supporting inf/armor and counter attack successfully.

A failed blobbing attack can mean the difference between an instant win/loss.

Really depends on the skill of both players though imo

Imo Maxim / M3 Spam happens because it's difficult to fight against and the counters to it don't come until much later. Conscript spam happens because the MG 42 can't stop a horde of Conscripts charging even at the front. Rifle Spam happens because they can be given AI and AT weapons and have high base DPS to begin with. Grenadier spam simply happens because other units are less reliable than Grenadiers.

"Quantity has a quality all its own."
-Joseph Stalin

A versatile army is generally way more powerful than just spamming but requires a lot more micro and it really depends on the skill of the player to make it work.

This!!!
+1

Its easier to blob.

Hi All I'm a casual player of coh/coh2 and i always had doubts about the mechanics and the strategies behind this game!

I try to explay my self in the easiest way because English in not my strength.

Why build a versatile army, whith differents units, give less "reward" than spam or make only one kind of unit?
I know that in a game with so few type of units is mandatory make 2/3 of the same one but in coh2 is almost all about spam!!!!

At higher levels of play, spamming one unit just means your opponent builds the counter to that unit and then you lose.

An army with combined arms may have to struggle through the early game but in the end it's definately worth it. It's usually like that with Axis. Survive the early game, pay attention to your unit preservation and you should be fine in the late game.

I agree with OP. There is no way to stop people from using blobbing as a tactic but there is a way to discourage it in a fair way.

My suggestion would be to classify blobbing as 3 or more infantry squads moving together in one command. The penalty would be that those squads moving together out in the open should have negative cover similar to when moving on an open street. The red shield by the infantry icons lets both the players know that blobbing incurs extra damage.

A versatile army is generally way more powerful than just spamming but requires a lot more micro and it really depends on the skill of the player to make it work.

Most of the problems people have with CoH 2 can be explained by some version of the above.

At higher levels of play, spamming one unit just means your opponent builds the counter to that unit and then you lose.

Not necessarily, Cataclaw has won games using only M3's and Combat Engineers, or Conscripts and T-34/85's. I know, it's Cataclaw, but it does disprove your statement that spam-play doesn't work on the high level.

Agree OP.

There needs to be some serious fixes regarding blobbing and spamming.

The only thing keeping me from enjoying this game to the (maxim)um

Seems combined arms only works smoothly when im playing a n00b that doesnt know how good blobbing is yet.

Very rarely do i feel like i got outmanuevered or outsmarted by some clever move or flank....i just get outblobbed and its really stupid

In Hearts of Iron III, when you're creating a new division and you're putting units into it, what you'll find is that, depending on you put in (say 2 inf units, a tank unit, and arty unit and an engineer unit) you'll receive a "combined arms" bonus. I wonder if CoH2 should do the same.

So, as you have more and different units in your army. (let's say an engi squad, 3-4 squads of infantry, an MG or 2, a mortar and a tank or two, based on what you have, your "combined arms" bonus will go up. For the sake of argument, it'll give all your units extra HP and speed (say)by up to 15 - 20%. Or perhaps it could be in proportion to your opponent's combined arms bonus as well.
So let's say your opponent is blobbing and has no combined arms bonus, you'll receive the full 20% bonuses, but if he's as combined arms orientated as you, your bonus would be much less (if any at all).

How would this prevent blobbing?
The bonus would recognise when you had 5-6-7 units of the same category (with a US inf blob, the various commanders would count as infantry) and it would also recognise that you have no, or limitted, indirect fire and suppression tools, as well as (hopefully) armour.

tbh unless you take away the ability to select multiple squads at a time then blobbling will always exist.

blobbing vs mortar/artillery or anything iwth splash damage is generally a bad idea. i thinnk part of it has to do with skill levels and people level of understanding of the factions.

Not necessarily, Cataclaw has won games using only M3's and Combat Engineers, or Conscripts and T-34/85's. I know, it's Cataclaw, but it does disprove your statement that spam-play doesn't work on the high level.

Against much lower players.

I've yet to see him putt just 2 units against pros. Hell, Cruzz handed his butt back to him on a silver plate for trying to spam M3s more then once.

Yea, I found it easier to spam two different kind of units to be more useful than having a variety.

First few minutes as Ostheer I get a good combonations like Grenadiers, mg42s, scout cars and the likes, but when it gets to late game I found it easier to just have pios and tanks than having a mixed army because fighting troops just get instawipe so it's wiser to get weapons that doesn't lose you manpower :/

The problem people are having is that the skill required to use one or two types of units and just attack move across the map is much lower than the skill required to counter that with combined arms. MGs work fine against blobs, they just have to be behind cover, green even depending on how big the blob is. Mortars destroy blobs. Any tank with splash punishes blobs.

Teching could still be more rewarding though, at least for soviet and Ostheer.

In Hearts of Iron III, when you're creating a new division and you're putting units into it, what you'll find is that, depending on you put in (say 2 inf units, a tank unit, and arty unit and an engineer unit) you'll receive a "combined arms" bonus. I wonder if CoH2 should do the same.

So, as you have more and different units in your army. (let's say an engi squad, 3-4 squads of infantry, an MG or 2, a mortar and a tank or two, based on what you have, your "combined arms" bonus will go up. For the sake of argument, it'll give all your units extra HP and speed (say)by up to 15 - 20%. Or perhaps it could be in proportion to your opponent's combined arms bonus as well.
So let's say your opponent is blobbing and has no combined arms bonus, you'll receive the full 20% bonuses, but if he's as combined arms orientated as you, your bonus would be much less (if any at all).

I think that this is not a good idea. If both players build versatile armies and one loses a unit, he is suddenly punished in two ways: losing his unit and losing (at least a part) of the bonus.

But the idea of reducing cover for 3+ squads on a spot sounds nice, as even small arms fire would be more punishing.