75mm Pack Howitzer UP

The US pack howitzer is perhaps one of the most underperforming units currently in the game. It comes at a whopping 480mp(the most expensive non-emplacement infantry unit, but it's effectiveness is barely any better then the 280mp mortars. It has pretty good accuracy and has marginally better AoE other mortars, but it has a slow rate of fire. It by far is nowhere near worth double the price of a standard mortar.

This is bad because this unit should be very important for the US who has no good non-doctrinal bambardment unit. They lack the rocket artillery of the other factions and are forced to make up for it with call-in artillery from the Major and doctrinal choices, but these fall short since they are heavily munition dependent and can't be used within the fog of war. The Pack Howitzer should be helping to fill in this role, but it's bombardment isn't very good due to low AoE. It noticably has a large explosion effect that isn't present in auto-fire. Perhaps giving it a higher AoE when using barrage might give this unit the effectiveness it needs to be useful within US builds.

The 75mm is worse than a mortar and the OKW field gun is borderline OP, even though it's cheaper. The field guns are pretty fubar right now.

The only way to make the USF gun worth anything at all is to get vet and white phosphorous barrage a blob. Even then, the actual AoE is inaccurate and small.

The 75mm is worse than a mortar and the OKW field gun is borderline OP, even though it's cheaper. The field guns are pretty fubar right now.

The only way to make the USF gun worth anything at all is to get vet and white phosphorous barrage a blob. Even then, the actual AoE is inaccurate and small.

The OKW gun really makes the pack howitzer look bad. It does pretty much the same damage, fires twice as fast, and is good vs tank without vet all for a cheaper cost.

The OKW gun really makes the pack howitzer look bad. It does pretty much the same damage, fires twice as fast, and is good vs tank without vet all for a cheaper cost.

And is also more accurate and has a proper range without needing to barrage and has immunity to cold and green cover...

Its performance is decent, it's just overpriced as fuck and there's no reason I'd get it when I can get a tank that does the same for half the manpower cost and some fuel.

Good thing USA has the pretty great M8 Howitzer to make up for how shit this thing is. Though I do realize that a fuel costing, later game unit doesn't exactly fill the same role.

Good thing USA has the pretty great M8 Howitzer to make up for how shit this thing is. Though I do realize that a fuel costing, later game unit doesn't exactly fill the same role.

The Scott is good at what it does, but it's not really a bombardment unit. It's great at doing consistant indirect damage, but if you want to really punish a enemy who's playing heavily defensive it just doesn't do the type of damage you need. Especially against the okw medic trucks the US needs a non-doc area bombardment weapon.

Good thing USA has the pretty great M8 Howitzer to make up for how shit this thing is. Though I do realize that a fuel costing, later game unit doesn't exactly fill the same role.

An incredibly expensive 9CP Doctrinal Artillery unit? "doesn't exactly fill the same role" is putting it really fucking lightly.

An incredibly expensive 9CP Doctrinal Artillery unit? "doesn't exactly fill the same role" is putting it really fucking lightly.

You are thinking of the M7 priest. He is talking about the M8 Scott.

An incredibly expensive 9CP Doctrinal Artillery unit? "doesn't exactly fill the same role" is putting it really fucking lightly.

You don't really play USF or even know their units, do you?

M8 is the T4 stuart based 75mm howitzer.

You don't really play USF or even know their units, do you?

M8 is the T4 stuart based 75mm howitzer.

It's been a long day and Americans all name their shit the same.

Yeah, Priest =/= Scott. Scott's pretty fucking good, I use it as opposed to the Howitzer pretty much every time I need artillery.

And Katitof, let's not try and have the game of "You don't even play", shall we? I'll win.

Funny how you say it's UP, while it has basically the same RoF as the OKW le.IG 18 and the same killing power against infantry (less damage per shell, but larger AoE, so the radius in which infantry is killed is the same as in OKWs gun). And it also has better penetration (85 vs 75) - but the lower damage per shell will make it worse against vehicles anyway.

Yes, it has somewhat worse scatter characteristics, but does it really make it suck while the le.IG 18 is borderline OP?

Actually it is up as it costs more then OKW one ands got less range.

Funny how you say it's UP, while it has basically the same RoF as the OKW le.IG 18 and the same killing power against infantry (less damage per shell, but larger AoE, so the radius in which infantry is killed is the same as in OKWs gun). And it also has better penetration (85 vs 75) - but the lower damage per shell will make it worse against vehicles anyway.

Yes, it has somewhat worse scatter characteristics, but does it really make it suck while the le.IG 18 is borderline OP?

Yes.

It's notably less accurate- the real killer, frankly.
The barrage for AT capacity requires Vet.
The shell travel time for barrage is notably longer.
The range on the basic fire is notably smaller.
The rate of fire is slower.
It does not provide green cover for the crew.
It does not provide cold protection for the crew.
The larger AoE does little to help the damage discrepancy.

It costs more manpower.


See the problem yet?

isnt the 75mm howitzer supposed to have better range than german counterparts?

Actually it is up as it costs more then OKW one ands got less range.

It's 80 vs 100 for auto attack and 160 vs 100 for barrage. Relic's asymmetrical balance I guess. Not that I completely agree with that decision - I suppose they should have just made both of them have the same range.

The range on the basic fire is notably smaller.
The rate of fire is slower.
The larger AoE does little to help the damage discrepancy.

I can agree with the rest of the points, but the two last ones - not really. As of range, I already wrote about it in this post.

As for the two other points... do you have stats to prove them?
The only big noticeable difference between le.IG 18 and 75mm pack howitzer is that the pack howitzer has setup time - RoF is basically the same. Unless you consider less than 8% RoF difference huge.
AoE - try again, 75mm pack howitzer has better AoE damage distribution against infantry, as you can see here and here.

It's 80 vs 100 for auto attack and 160 vs 100 for barrage. Relic's asymmetrical balance I guess. Not that I completely agree with that decision - I suppose they should have just made both of them have the same range.

I can agree with the rest of the points, but the two last ones - not really. As of range, I already wrote about it in this post.

As for the two other points... do you have stats to prove them?
The only big noticeable difference between le.IG 18 and 75mm pack howitzer is that the pack howitzer has setup time - RoF is basically the same. Unless you consider less than 8% RoF difference huge.
AoE - try again, 75mm pack howitzer has better AoE damage distribution against infantry, as you can see here and here.

75mm:
Scatter angle:
9.0
Min tilt angle:
0.0
Distance obj hit min:
0.0
Distance offset:
0.3
Fow angle multi:
1.25
Tilt max distance:
0.0
Tilt scatter chance:
0.0
Distance ratio:
0.175
Burst pattern:
false
Max tilt angle:
0.0
Delay bracket change chance:
0.0
Distance max:
14.0
Fow distance multi:
1.25

IG 18:
Scatter angle:
7.5
Min tilt angle:
0.0
Distance obj hit min:
5.0
Distance offset:
0.12
Fow angle multi:
1.25
Tilt max distance:
0.0
Tilt scatter chance:
0.0
Distance ratio:
0.15
Burst pattern:
false
Max tilt angle:
0.0
Delay bracket change chance:
0.0
Distance max:
12.0
Fow distance multi:
1.25

Yes, the 75mm is considerably less accurate.

As for the damage distribution- both of them stop being instantly fatal at ~1.5 (the OKW version does it at about 1.51)

The damage that happens in the extra 'splash' radius between 3 and 5 is 4. 4 damage. That's what you get in that bonus AoE. The difference between the two is less beneficial than you would think because of the relative speed drop in the USF version. It starts with less damage and- whilst dropping off begins a little later, does so much more quickly. The usual spacing of infantry make both about as splashy as each other, very little notable difference

I love how you quote the whole list. Do you even know which one of those are really relevant for accuracy?

Besides that your damage assessment is lacking.
Both have a ~1.5 radius with >80 dmg. That's important, as that's the instakill radius. It doesn't matter against infantry if you have 80 or a million damage. Anything with >= 80 damage instakills infantry entities. From then on the Pack Howitzer has more damage than the leIG at every single range the game uses. Every single range. Besides that it also has a bigger AoE.

leIG ends at 4, Pack Howitzer at 6 range. It only deals 4 damage in that area, but why can those 4 damage be important? Care to elaborate?

I love how you quote the whole list. Do you even know which one of those are really relevant for accuracy?

Besides that your damage assessment is lacking.
Both have a ~1.5 radius with >80 dmg. That's important, as that's the instakill radius. It doesn't matter against infantry if you have 80 or a million damage. Anything with >= 80 damage instakills infantry entities. From then on the Pack Howitzer has more damage than the leIG at every single range the game uses. Every single range. Besides that it also has a bigger AoE.

leIG ends at 4, Pack Howitzer at 6 range. It only deals 4 damage in that area, but why can those 4 damage be important? Care to elaborate?

because stats!!!

I love how you quote the whole list. Do you even know which one of those are really relevant for accuracy?

Besides that your damage assessment is lacking.
Both have a ~1.5 radius with >80 dmg. That's important, as that's the instakill radius. It doesn't matter against infantry if you have 80 or a million damage. Anything with >= 80 damage instakills infantry entities. From then on the Pack Howitzer has more damage than the leIG at every single range the game uses. Every single range. Besides that it also has a bigger AoE.

leIG ends at 4, Pack Howitzer at 6 range. It only deals 4 damage in that area, but why can those 4 damage be important? Care to elaborate?

I think you misconstrue what I was getting at.

Regardless. The full list is there because editing it around is busy work.

As for the 80 damage radius- neither has an advantage in instant gibbing radius. I know. thanks for re-stating exactly what I said, I guess?

That's what I was saying. They have equal capacity to gib models when they hit. From then on the whole thing is fairly generic, and not really in favour of either gun.

The reason I bring up the meaningless damage in the outer radius is just to underline how little the extra AoE actually means for the Pack compared to the IG 18. They may as well be firing the same shot, only the IG hits more, fires faster (just), offers green cover, etc. etc. etc.