Most vehicles, especially tanks, have too much health. This has multiple effects on the metagame and decreases strategic options available to players. It results in players always going armor heavy strategies.
1. Overly aggressive play with vehicles is rewarded by making vehicle health so high. Not only do I feel that this creates gameplay that is unrealistic, it punishes cautious play.
2. High vehicle health decreases the need for scouting and has the effect of punishing defensive strategies.
3. Abilities like smoke screens have reduced importance.
4. Infantry play suffers from so much armor on the field.
I'd like to see the armor rebalanced to have much less health, possibly halved for all vehicles. After the infantry patch, infantry became much more vulnerable and tactics suddenly become more varied. The same thing could happen with armor, but only if health is decreased across the board.
Vehicle Health
1 Jul 2014, 19:41 PM
#1
Posts: 179
1 Jul 2014, 19:49 PM
#2
Posts: 4928
They already did a vehicle rebalance, and what you suggest would just break the game because nobody wants to pay for 100+ fuel vehicles that die in 2 hits from anything.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
1 Jul 2014, 19:59 PM
#3
Posts: 179
They already did a vehicle rebalance, and what you suggest would just break the game because nobody wants to pay for 100+ fuel vehicles that die in 2 hits from anything.
I don't think they went far enough. Infantry also gets wiped quickly when caught out of position against its counter. I don't understand your reasoning and I think that it should at least be experimented with more.
1 Jul 2014, 20:01 PM
#4
Posts: 1384
Most vehicles die quite quickly to AT guns or other tanks.
1 Jul 2014, 20:18 PM
#5
Posts: 127
I see where you're coming from. I feel there's an overabundance of armour on the field in CoH2, but at the same time, I find my vehicles die quite quickly when confronted with a Pak or ZiS.
1 Jul 2014, 21:19 PM
#6
Posts: 503
Permanently BannedThis is because the weapons (all) are in 2unreal damage, i even see a bazooka shot in the middle of the guy, and they dont die, just a few sec later...
One time a put a grenade in the middle of 2 squads, but all that in 3m², and just 2 guys die, if are real all of then dies, but with that real weapons damage the game will be different (much) than they are...
One example that i always see, is the PAK or ZIS with MANS, you order you tank to attack, they never explode the AT if are mans in it, but with no mans, they explode in like 3 shots...
If the weapons are in real damage, you manage the squad like you manage you ace weapon in the game (extra ultra careful)...
This type of game will be atractive for less players...
One time a put a grenade in the middle of 2 squads, but all that in 3m², and just 2 guys die, if are real all of then dies, but with that real weapons damage the game will be different (much) than they are...
One example that i always see, is the PAK or ZIS with MANS, you order you tank to attack, they never explode the AT if are mans in it, but with no mans, they explode in like 3 shots...
If the weapons are in real damage, you manage the squad like you manage you ace weapon in the game (extra ultra careful)...
This type of game will be atractive for less players...
1 Jul 2014, 22:17 PM
#7
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
This is because the weapons (all) are in 2unreal damage, i even see a bazooka shot in the middle of the guy, and they dont die, just a few sec later...
One time a put a grenade in the middle of 2 squads, but all that in 3m², and just 2 guys die, if are real all of then dies, but with that real weapons damage the game will be different (much) than they are...
One example that i always see, is the PAK or ZIS with MANS, you order you tank to attack, they never explode the AT if are mans in it, but with no mans, they explode in like 3 shots...
If the weapons are in real damage, you manage the squad like you manage you ace weapon in the game (extra ultra careful)...
This type of game will be atractive for less players...
If you want real damage, go play men of war.
You always go knee jerk on realism.
CoH2 have IMMERSION(well, had before WFA) not realism.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
1 Jul 2014, 22:38 PM
#8
Posts: 503
Permanently Banned
If you want real damage, go play men of war.
You always go knee jerk on realism.
CoH2 have IMMERSION(well, had before WFA) not realism.
Not at all, i starting like the game mod, but a bit more realism will be great...
And i read some stuff from the MoW and looks like they are not a good game like Coh2...
You talk immersion, this is supreme in a game...
1 Jul 2014, 23:29 PM
#9
Posts: 267
I kind of agree. While I'm not disputing that armor should be "armored", I played a game recently where the opposing team fielded an unbelievable amount of armor; to the point where they didn't even care about microing them. They just rolled through everything. I wouldn't know how to balance that though.
2 Jul 2014, 00:34 AM
#10
Posts: 379
I disagree. I've not found this to be an issue. I also think that if you reduce the effectiveness of armour it's a further disincentive to tech, which is sometimes a problem already.
You should be rewarded for controlling the fuel, teching up, and constructing armoured units. Fuel control means you have been winning the game and so you should be rewarded.
Infantry AT and AT guns are (for the most part) manpower only counters to fuel units. They should be difficult to kill tanks with unless you set things up well or your opponent is careless.
You should be rewarded for controlling the fuel, teching up, and constructing armoured units. Fuel control means you have been winning the game and so you should be rewarded.
Infantry AT and AT guns are (for the most part) manpower only counters to fuel units. They should be difficult to kill tanks with unless you set things up well or your opponent is careless.
2 Jul 2014, 00:35 AM
#11
Posts: 379
Edit: Double post ... sorry 
2 Jul 2014, 01:54 AM
#12
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Besides heavies, most tank can die pretty fast since the last buff to AT guns. Thing is don´t rely on a singular AT source.
It MAYBE be interesting, on a mod.
It will also be HUGE RNG if your tank dies or not.
1 penetration = boom dead
1 bounce/miss = happy tank (at least for mediums)
With your suggestion, half HP.
-Vehicles getting 1 shot by 100/120dmg (AT nade): Kubel, Armored car, M3, Panzerwerfer, Opel, MHT, Mechanized group HTs, Katys, Ambulance, US HT/Scoutcars, Greyhound, M20...
-Vehicles getting 1 shot by 160dmg (most sources): OKW HTs, Luch, OH HT, US HTs, Su76, T70, M8, Stuart, Priest...
-1 shot by 200-240dmg (KT-ISU-KV2-M36): Puma, Stugs, M36, M10,
-1 shot by 320dmg (Pak43-JT-Elephant): hmmm all tanks excepts heavies?
And i haven´t mentioned mines, tellers, strafing runs, artillery, etc.
I don´t think you have the micro to dodge all what i mention before.
If you want realism, you have MoW. If you want vehicles with less health, you should expect vehicles with double the range + lethality.
It MAYBE be interesting, on a mod.
It will also be HUGE RNG if your tank dies or not.
1 penetration = boom dead
1 bounce/miss = happy tank (at least for mediums)
With your suggestion, half HP.
-Vehicles getting 1 shot by 100/120dmg (AT nade): Kubel, Armored car, M3, Panzerwerfer, Opel, MHT, Mechanized group HTs, Katys, Ambulance, US HT/Scoutcars, Greyhound, M20...
-Vehicles getting 1 shot by 160dmg (most sources): OKW HTs, Luch, OH HT, US HTs, Su76, T70, M8, Stuart, Priest...
-1 shot by 200-240dmg (KT-ISU-KV2-M36): Puma, Stugs, M36, M10,
-1 shot by 320dmg (Pak43-JT-Elephant): hmmm all tanks excepts heavies?
And i haven´t mentioned mines, tellers, strafing runs, artillery, etc.
I don´t think you have the micro to dodge all what i mention before.
If you want realism, you have MoW. If you want vehicles with less health, you should expect vehicles with double the range + lethality.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
2 Jul 2014, 02:54 AM
#13
Posts: 1026
I may be just crazy but I feel like I see much more armor on the field than I ever did the first game.
2 Jul 2014, 19:30 PM
#14
Posts: 4928
I may be just crazy but I feel like I see much more armor on the field than I ever did the first game.
And yet it's more expensive and more easily destroyed than in the first game.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
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