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Riflemen eating Volks!

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dasheepeh
30 Jun 2014, 16:04 PM
#21
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jump backJump back to quoted post30 Jun 2014, 12:17 PMDavidKh
dasheepeh, you are NOOB son!

Do you know how much time and fuel you need to get Obers? or How much MP to get Falls and reinforce them?

What about hero units of USA? They can't counter signle Falls squad?
Dual or tripple riflemen just killing MG so easy and also its doctrinal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So hard to guess?

Katitof
but Riflemen are too numberous, looks like they don't die. Also moving medic/reinforce car makes them unstoppable ))

omg why people always think only for themselves.


So you make a thread to discuss or to offend other people for having an opinion that differs from yours? Im a noob?

And you wonder why a 240mp unit doesnt win vs a 280mp in a 1v1 situation? You want Volks to be able to easily beat Rifles? Sorry, wont happen. You either learn to use the great options given to you or you come here for some advice. You came here and you got advice without any offense directed to you. And all i get is "noob"? Thanks man, thanks for appreciating my post. Its the internet i guess, but you dont have to expect people to treat you better than you treat them.
servant to the vet 5 königskübel

b4 and soviet FHQ enthusiast

fan of the illustrious black prince
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Kreatiir
30 Jun 2014, 16:11 PM
#22
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Posts: 2819

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Jun 2014, 12:17 PMDavidKh
dasheepeh, you are NOOB son!


Son, one thing is certain, he's not.
He has a point, rifleman are supposed to 1v1 win the fights with volks.

And son, keep it clean.
All posts made are about situations in 2v2's. Not a 1v1 player.
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braciszek
30 Jun 2014, 16:15 PM
#23
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Posts: 2053

Volks still have to fit the role of cheap, reinforcable infantry. Notice how they are the cheapest OKW squad to reinforce (at least they feel cheap). They are used for capping or for capturing weapons. They start out pretty meh, but they scale really well (i cannot say the same for a lot of infantry) and can upgrade to the very annoying panzerschreck. They can defend themselves somewhat in cover with their grenade. Against riflemen - use combined arms. OKW has tons of cool stuff. They have elite infantry, but even the most basic infantry unit shouldnt take on more expensive squads right off the bat.

Sum: Use them right. All factions' starting infantry are different.
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Lucas Troy
30 Jun 2014, 16:45 PM
#24
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Posts: 508

Do they fill the role that Ostruppen are supposed to fill for Ostheer? An affordable unit that can buy time, support attacks, re-crew things, and even hurt tanks given the right circumstances. Except Volks are viable to build, whereas Ostruppen aren't, because unlike Ostruppen, they can contribute to a fight.


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GustavGans
30 Jun 2014, 17:08 PM
#25
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Posts: 747

Am I the only one around here who actually thinks that Volksgrenadiers are great?

They have good survivability, they are cheap, combined with sturmpios they wreak havoc, they have 5! vet levels, they can equip Pshrecks and they look pretty :D

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ThumbsUp
30 Jun 2014, 17:10 PM
#26
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Posts: 182

I love volks, they scale well, and are generally best used as distractions for your hard hitting weaker units to get in close (or take less damage). Also the fact that they get shreks later on makes them great for infantry centric armies as long as you can keep them alive.

Also.... volks cost 240 and rifles 280 which has been mentioned multiple times.
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Neffarion
30 Jun 2014, 17:11 PM
#27
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Posts: 461 | Subs: 1

Volks are great until you realize that a rifleman squad can just run up to the Volk squad (in any cover) and win the engagement which makes no sense
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Tobis
30 Jun 2014, 17:51 PM
#28
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jump backJump back to quoted post30 Jun 2014, 17:11 PMNeffarion
Volks are great until you realize that a rifleman squad can just run up to the Volk squad (in any cover) and win the engagement which makes no sense

Semi automatic rifles versus bolt action rifles. With enough speed why not?
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Neffarion
30 Jun 2014, 18:57 PM
#29
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jump backJump back to quoted post30 Jun 2014, 17:51 PMTobis

Semi automatic rifles versus bolt action rifles. With enough speed why not?

just because rifles have semi auto rifles doesn't mean they shouldn't get punished for running up to any Volk squad without giving any fuck about the cover
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BartonPL
30 Jun 2014, 19:09 PM
#30
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Posts: 2807 | Subs: 6

Volks are cheaper and they do not require additional MP+Fuel costs to get better stuff (like bars for example), they are good in long range and can beat rifles, and at vet 5 they are really hard to kill, altho when USA can get fast like 4 rifle squads then it might be hard to counter that in early
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KovuTalli
30 Jun 2014, 19:14 PM
#31
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Posts: 332

Rifles should beat Volks, if they get to mid-close range.

At LONG range Volks should have a small (read, SMALL) advantage over basic rifles.

Also Agree with SturmtigerNeffarion, if rifles rush through red/open cover at a Volks in green, they should get punished for it not just "meh w/e, i got hit once and didn't lose a model"

Perhaps lower how effective vanilla rifles are slightly but buff their scaling with Vet? Means they won't feel like complete powerhouses at the start and will promote mixed arms, not just Rifles + AA HT in to Tanks.
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Bravus
30 Jun 2014, 19:56 PM
#32
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Volks just need a better schnaps!
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Mr. Someguy
30 Jun 2014, 20:21 PM
#33
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Posts: 4928

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Jun 2014, 17:51 PMTobis
Semi automatic rifles versus bolt action rifles. With enough speed why not?


Sturmpioneers / Panzergreandiers can charge over open ground with assault rifles and still lose to bolts. Assault Grenadiers can charge over open ground with submachine guns and still lose to bolts. Shock Troops can charge over open ground with submachine guns and body armour and still lose to bolts.

If Riflemen are breaking that basic rule, then Riflemen are over-performing.

Disclaimer: I do not know if Riflemen can actually do that, I'm just explaining why they shouldn't.
jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2016, 01:09 AMluvnest
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII

> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
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Cyridius
30 Jun 2014, 20:30 PM
#34
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Posts: 627

Volks in the early game are pretty terrible. As intended. If you want a core combat troop you have your Sturmpios, and your Volks should be supporting them.

When you see Volks, you should think Combat Engineers, not Conscripts.

Their utility is a cheap capping unit that can hit Vet 5 and upgrade with Panzerschreks. They do not fill the same role as Riflemen, which is USA's core combat unit.
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Mr. Someguy
30 Jun 2014, 20:32 PM
#35
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Posts: 4928

That's wrong too, you're not supposed to spam Sturmpios because then you just get countered by people using cover or volley fire or maxims.

Volks are way better than Combat Engineers, they're more like Conscripts but a little more skilled than that.
jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2016, 01:09 AMluvnest
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII

> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
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SUCKmyCLOCK
1 Jul 2014, 00:18 AM
#36
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Posts: 207

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Jun 2014, 20:21 PMMr. Someguy


Sturmpioneers / Panzergreandiers can charge over open ground with assault rifles and still lose to bolts. Assault Grenadiers can charge over open ground with submachine guns and still lose to bolts. Shock Troops can charge over open ground with submachine guns and body armour and still lose to bolts.

If Riflemen are breaking that basic rule, then Riflemen are over-performing.

Disclaimer: I do not know if Riflemen can actually do that, I'm just explaining why they shouldn't.


+1 million sir! all these god damn morons spouting garbage "rifles are not OP" LOLZ living in dreamland! Relic have to nerf em or game will be dead within weeks, totally broken atm, FACT!
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ThumbsUp
1 Jul 2014, 00:24 AM
#37
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Posts: 182

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Jul 2014, 00:18 AMSUCKmyCLOCK


+1 million sir! all these god damn morons spouting garbage "rifles are not OP" LOLZ living in dreamland! Relic have to nerf em or game will be dead within weeks, totally broken atm, FACT!


Actually this was a common vcoh mechanic. Also, that game had a steady popular playerbase until the steam merge so if people learned to deal with it there they can learn the meta and learn to deal with it in the second installment of basically the same game.
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Mr. Someguy
1 Jul 2014, 00:36 AM
#38
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Posts: 4928

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Jul 2014, 00:24 AMThumbsUp
Actually this was a common vcoh mechanic. Also, that game had a steady popular playerbase until the steam merge so if people learned to deal with it there they can learn the meta and learn to deal with it in the second installment of basically the same game.


1. CoH2 is not vCoH.
2. If Riflemen (Infantry unit) can charge in brainlessly and win, why not any of the Assault units I listed?
jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2016, 01:09 AMluvnest
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII

> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
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Kyle
1 Jul 2014, 00:43 AM
#39
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Posts: 322

Yo guys the problem that is not fair for the damn Rifleman to charge right into the Volksgrenadier in COVER without losing too much ( still have 80% health ). That's not fair at all.

Remember conscript run into Grenadier in green cover and get fucked ? Just because Rifleman are 40 more manpower doesn't mean they will have a body armor.

I believe many of you here have saw Rifleman just charge into any Volksgrenadier/ Grenadier in green cover and only lost 20 => 30% health...
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__deleted__
1 Jul 2014, 00:43 AM
#40
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Posts: 1225

Once you reach Vet3+ Volks become fairly resilient and make for a passable meatshield that can serve as OKWs (direly needed) auxiliary AT. Not that they really are gonna kill a well microed tank, however they might deter it or force it out of the fight earlier. However, at the AI front, they just dont dish out the corresponding damage. In fact, the IMO only truly competitive lategame infantry for OKW vs rifles are Obersoldaten. Füsiliere dont have the DPS and Fallis/Pios are too squishy to truly stand up to vetted, upgraded riflemen. And if you think BARs are bad on rifles, you haven't yet seen the dual 1919A6 magic - which admittedly is filthy expensive, but still, more then worth it.
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