sturmpios

So overall, I think WF is pretty good, and I'm really enjoying the new game mechanics. I always liked playing Americans, and now that they're back, I'm pretty happy. Sure, the Axis seem stronger, but it's always been like that. The Americans have lots of flexibility and lots of options. Right now though, I feel like Jerry Seinfeld, saying, "so what's the deal with these sturmpios ?" Its a unit that's available pretty much right away, and I'm running into lots of them, from early game all the way to the bitter end. They kill any infantry they come across, regardless of cover. The only hope I have is to upgrade inf weapons, but that comes later in the game. Meanwhile, capping around the map is next to impossible, which is one of the only ways for the Americans to maintain an advantage. As soon as sturmpios show up, I either retreat or die. Like I said, I know Germans have lots of these elite troops (FJ, PF, sturmpios, OS...). I feel like sturmpios come too early and do way too much damage. Sure, they're expensive to reinforce. Still...I lost 2 rfn, and 1 RE squad to 1 sturmpio squad in one game.

Umm, RETs hardcounter sturmpios with volley and rifles will win fight easily if you shoot them from cover.

The only ones who have problem against them are soviets who go for conspam.

Umm, RETs hardcounter sturmpios with volley and rifles will win fight easily if you shoot them from cover.

The only ones who have problem against them are soviets who go for conspam.

+1

Yeah, I tried that...it seems like it took forever for volley fire to suppress them, and my rfns were in green cover at the time. Besides which, you're telling me that unless I have that combo in any engagement against SPs (volley, green cover and rfn), that I'm basically up shit's creek ? Kind of defeats the idea of being able to send rfn squads all over to cap...

Yeah, I tried that...it seems like it took forever for volley fire to suppress them, and my rfns were in green cover at the time. Besides which, you're telling me that unless I have that combo in any engagement against SPs (volley, green cover and rfn), that I'm basically up shit's creek ? Kind of defeats the idea of being able to send rfn squads all over to cap...

Stop acting like you should trololol with allied every time, since the game starts. Invest some micro, some combined arms and above all... L2P.

Yeah, I tried that...it seems like it took forever for volley fire to suppress them, and my rfns were in green cover at the time. Besides which, you're telling me that unless I have that combo in any engagement against SPs (volley, green cover and rfn), that I'm basically up shit's creek ? Kind of defeats the idea of being able to send rfn squads all over to cap...

Single RET will win against sturmpios if you use volley.

Single Rifle will win against sturmpios if you let them come close, if they sit at distance, rifles got almost twice the DPS and 20% more health.

Its not even complicated micro, its not even simple micro.

Its all about not being braindead potato(no pun intended) and knowing when to click STOP button and Volley button.

I see, So "L2P" is now the default reply for people who have nothing constructive to contribute.

How is any of this considered trolling ? Validate that statement or GTFO.

My micro isn't perfect, but it's not that crappy either. As far as combined arms, that would certianly work, yes. If you had cared to read my post thoroughly before ejaculating your "L2P", you might have read that my concern was with the lack of that option in early game. Here it is again; I apologize that I don't have crayons to be able to write this out for you :

During early game capping, which is where Americans traditionally pull ahead, THERE ARE LITTLE TO NO OPTIONS FOR COMBINED ARMS. It is early enough that I have no MGs, no BARs, no grenades, nothing but rfns.

Single RET will win against sturmpios if you use volley.

Single Rifle will win against sturmpios if you let them come close, if they sit at distance, rifles got almost twice the DPS and 20% more health.

Its not even complicated micro, its not even simple micro.

Its all about not being braindead potato(no pun intended) and knowing when to click STOP button and Volley button.

I'm not making this up. On several occasions, I've had full health rfn squads get eaten up, while stopped in green cover. So basically I need to have RETs with rfn at all times now ?

Whilst I regard sturmpios as balanced okay, I feel Americans at this point to my mind just aren't that interesting. With Soviets I have a about 4 seperate builds I can go with multiple small changes in either of the builds. With the US all I'm see are rifles... rifles and more rifles... It's not particularly exciting and especially considering that my skill with rifles isn't that great and for me they just aren't enough to achieve anything meaningful against OKW or OH.

I'm not suggesting a nerf to sturmpios, but a change in US tiers is in order because it's just no fun building 3-4 rifles and then waiting to get enough fuel for a lieutenant, all the while not achieving much because I can't use combined arms and therefore I have no suppression or indirect fire.

These are just my observations based multiple 4v4s played to familiarise myself with the faction.

I'm ok with RFN being "boring", but from what other "more experienced" players are posting, it seems that these battle-hardened, bad-ass riflemen need to have their rear echelon brothers to back them up against sturmpioneers. You know...the clerks, the cooks, the supply guys...rear echelon troops.

So your problem is that you don't have 4-5 unit types from T1? Then maybe you explained it wrong, because what I got from your post was: sturmpios are to powerfull, nerf them! That is why I said L2P.
If you still think sturmpio are to powerfull think again at OKW shortages in middle and late game. This is the reason for which they have such powerfull units in general and especially in start game. To be able to cap and hold enough teritorry in order to compensate somehow their weaknesses. It is difficult to play in early game against OKW no doubt but soon enough it will pay off.

maxims are a direct counter to any okw inf and from what i see,its mainly the sturmpios that provide the firepower for okw early game...volks are too weak and act as meatshield/distraction till they get shrecks.

NO.

My problem has nothing to do with my unit choices at T1.

Yes, I feel like sturmpios are really powerful, especially against non-vet, non-upgraded T1 American units. Nerf them ? That's one option, but I deliberately didn't say that. I posted this to put it out to the community, in case there were other options I hadn't considered. So far, I got :
- "L2P"
- use volley fire and cover
- it's all in your head, riflemen can take sturmpios

Also, my post had nothing to do with middle or late game, or any shortages that OKW might experience in those phases. I specifically mentioned early game; where Americans might have an advantage, and might be able to cripple Axis resources. This is incidentally what others recommend doing to prevent Axis from fielding more powerful units later- "don't let them tech up", "if you let them get that, then you've already lost".

What I'm getting from your reply is this-

OKW early units are powerful in the early game to take and hold resources, to compensate for middle/ late game shortages.
Shortages which would go to pay for other powerful units later. So that OKW pretty much stays powerful through all phases of the game ?

I'm sorry if there's something I'm missing here, but it seems as if you're suggesting that OKW need the sturmpios to be this powerful to ensure OKW dominance throughout the entire game.

Whilst I regard sturmpios as balanced okay, I feel Americans at this point to my mind just aren't that interesting. With Soviets I have a about 4 seperate builds I can go with multiple small changes in either of the builds. With the US all I'm see are rifles... rifles and more rifles... It's not particularly exciting and especially considering that my skill with rifles isn't that great and for me they just aren't enough to achieve anything meaningful against OKW or OH.

The flexibility of USF openings doesn't come with different startring units, but different tactical options for your rifles.

Do you go rifles and fast tech into HMG/M20/AAHT?
Or do you stall for captain for light AT and either go stuart/PACK howie/AT gun if needed?
Or you just simply stall tech at all and go for nades or bars or zookas?

Do you go 3 rifles, or 2 rifles, additional RET and ambulance and make soft retreats back to it to keep concentrated field presence and pressure on cutoff while your 2nd RET caps the map and first does fighting position for rifle nade support.

Just because USF don't have a variety of units to open with, doesn't mean they don't have a variety of openings.

I myself played with most of what I've described above, it feels different, it plays different and its all about what works best for you. When AA halftruck "meta" for new factions calms down we'll see more builds.

NO.

My problem has nothing to do with my unit choices at T1.

Yes, I feel like sturmpios are really powerful, especially against non-vet, non-upgraded T1 American units. Nerf them ? That's one option, but I deliberately didn't say that. I posted this to put it out to the community, in case there were other options I hadn't considered. So far, I got :
- "L2P"
- use volley fire and cover
- it's all in your head, riflemen can take sturmpios

Also, my post had nothing to do with middle or late game, or any shortages that OKW might experience in those phases. I specifically mentioned early game; where Americans might have an advantage, and might be able to cripple Axis resources. This is incidentally what others recommend doing to prevent Axis from fielding more powerful units later- "don't let them tech up", "if you let them get that, then you've already lost".

What I'm getting from your reply is this-

OKW early units are powerful in the early game to take and hold resources, to compensate for middle/ late game shortages.
Shortages which would go to pay for other powerful units later. So that OKW pretty much stays powerful through all phases of the game ?

I'm sorry if there's something I'm missing here, but it seems as if you're suggesting that OKW need the sturmpios to be this powerful to ensure OKW dominance throughout the entire game.

The OKW have the advantage at the very start of the game because of the sturmpios, but once they get pushed off you can quickly take the map with rifles and overpower the volks. If you catch the sturmpios out of cover, you can easily suppress them and force them to retreat. If you have rifles in cover and sturmpios come across them at long range, the rifles will win. You need to make a prediction where you expect the enemy will send his sturmpios, most players will be aggressive with them and send them to capture your fuel point at the start. If there is good cover there or a building, send your rifles, otherwise send your RET. Send the next squad to cap for his fuel, since after the sturmpios are forced off he will need to keep his volks close or he will lose everything he took with the sturmpios. The USF have a great advantage against the OKW if they can win the first battle.

I lost 2 rfn, and 1 RE squad to 1 sturmpio squad in one game.

Color me puzzled. The only way that can happen is to have your units constantly moving in red cover, right in front of Sturmpios which are standing still in green cover. And not using volley fire.

It's like playing deliberately bad, which i picture is quite funny.

I'm sorry if there's something I'm missing here, but it seems as if you're suggesting that OKW need the sturmpios to be this powerful to ensure OKW dominance throughout the entire game.

No, most of them are suggesting you should stop playing deliberately bad.

Send the next squad to cap for his fuel, since after the sturmpios are forced off he will need to keep his volks close or he will lose everything he took with the sturmpios. The USF have a great advantage against the OKW if they can win the first battle.

I like that, thanks.

Color me puzzled. The only way that can happen is to have your units constantly moving in red cover, right in front of Sturmpios which are standing still in green cover. And not using volley fire.

It's like playing deliberately bad, which i picture is quite funny.



No, most of them are suggesting you should stop playing deliberately bad.

What ? You mean this game ISN'T won by how many guys I lose ? ....you should stick with MSpaint; humour isn't your strong suit.

Anyhow, I think I've gleaned as much knowledge as there is to be had from this thread. Thanks for all the info that didn't consist of "L2P". Mod, lock away...

So overall, I think WF is pretty good, and I'm really enjoying the new game mechanics. I always liked playing Americans, and now that they're back, I'm pretty happy. Sure, the Axis seem stronger, but it's always been like that. The Americans have lots of flexibility and lots of options. Right now though, I feel like Jerry Seinfeld, saying, "so what's the deal with these sturmpios ?" Its a unit that's available pretty much right away, and I'm running into lots of them, from early game all the way to the bitter end. They kill any infantry they come across, regardless of cover. The only hope I have is to upgrade inf weapons, but that comes later in the game. Meanwhile, capping around the map is next to impossible, which is one of the only ways for the Americans to maintain an advantage. As soon as sturmpios show up, I either retreat or die. Like I said, I know Germans have lots of these elite troops (FJ, PF, sturmpios, OS...). I feel like sturmpios come too early and do way too much damage. Sure, they're expensive to reinforce. Still...I lost 2 rfn, and 1 RE squad to 1 sturmpio squad in one game.

Good Point OP, agree