1v1, the Unbeatable Liberty & Democracy

IMO, in 1v1, this army is just extremely strong and easy to win in the current balance, because of this 3 units. I didn't play a lot of USF in the Alpha or I would have whine the crap out of the Alpha forum.


Rear Echelon squad, the "I WIN" button

This 160 MP squad seems like as useless as Soviet CE squad, but it has an "I WIN" button, Volley Fire. No matter the Jerry is hiding in green cover or not, it just get suppressed very quickly, along with other squad around them. Relic, you think this 20 muni "I WIN" button is fine? You can always win any engagement at essential fuel or cutoff point. That is just silly.

And the zooka "I WIN" button is just ROFL broken.


Rifles

Yes, they are the most expensive backbone infantry in the game, I am not sure if they just beat the hell out of Volks & Grens are fine. If they flank a MG42/MG34, it must retreat or get vaporised, that is good. But after they get the Infantry company LMG, they became a "Hit the Dirt" 360 degree MG squad, just for 60 muni per gun.

So basically you choose Infantry company, equip 6 Browning LMG into 3/4 Rifles, with a BAR Lt, you can theoretically win every engagement. I didn't say A move because wise MG placement can stop that, but German can't stop a good flank because mines are (OKW mine) expensive or (S-mine) avoidable. Ober does not arrive that early and 1 Falls just can't do shit to this LMG spamming.


M15 AA Halftrack

Glass cannon, it can be instantly killed by a Rakentenwerfer and screck, but the DPS is ROFL. Don't tell me it needs to show his vulnerable ass to shoot, because HT has no rear armour penalty.
It has zero setup time, vaporising OKW flak track, Puma, Ostheer 222, or suppress and wipe out any other unlucky Jerry just in 3 seconds. And it comes earlier than a Pak. Comparing to OKW flak track, Allies soldiers can just GTFO before it set up the flak gun.


Just look at top 30 of the USF 1v1 ladder Relic, that is fine?

All you need is follow this BO,

3/4 Rifles, Lt, M15 Halftrack, maybe an ambulance, grab 6-8 Browning LMG, you have won.
If you didn't win, L2P.

P.S. I type this as an USF player.

L2p please

I won every Match with Germans until this moment

Well, it depends on map, but on open ones usa definitely feels over the top.

Volley fire need to be useless at far range, making kiting possible.

Cost of flak halftrack should be increased or/and suppression removed, because its near to impossible to kill this damn thing with shrecks considering it race speed (since suppressed shrecks not hitting anything and thus cant protect fragile okw at gun from circle strafing). Buildings/pumas(na-a, puma cant kill halftrack reliable, gl spotting for it against suppression)/mines baiting is only salvation.

No idea about rifles. Sturmpios then obers later rape em. IMO, if okw player allowed usa player to blob upgraded rifles, and have no obers with mg support its his damn fault.

Also sherman he shells, dozer and m8 shots wipe squads too often.

Rear echelon "volley" is definitely a strong ability that takes tactics from ostheer to work around/avoid. Mg42 can contain them, just dont let multiple grens/pios flank/get close to them especially if they are garrisoned.

Once ostheer 'snow balls' to a decent and sizable army (several grens with some lmgs, 2 mgs, a mortar, pak, etc) they can handle the US really well.

Volley fire should be targeted at one squad and not potentially all squads. It currently literally is "Pay 20 munitions, make all infantry retreat"...every single engagement

Yeah ^ that would be more fair.

IMO, in 1v1, this army is just extremely strong and easy to win in the current balance, because of this 3 units. I didn't play a lot of USF in the Alpha or I would have whine the crap out of the Alpha forum.


Rear Echelon squad, the "I WIN" button

This 160 MP squad seems like as useless as Soviet CE squad, but it has an "I WIN" button, Volley Fire. No matter the Jerry is hiding in green cover or not, it just get suppressed very quickly, along with other squad around them. Relic, you think this 20 muni "I WIN" button is fine? You can always win any engagement at essential fuel or cutoff point. That is just silly.

And the zooka "I WIN" button is just ROFL broken.

Why do you have squads blobbed up against a suppression unit?

Rear Echelons have paper durability and do zero damage. Literally the only thing they can do is spam Volley Fire, and you know what beats that? Having 2 squads. And as infantry units start doing more and more damage as the game goes on, simply using volley fire doesn't work anymore.

One of the biggest issues I find with Volley is that it allows Rear Echelon to 1v1 any squad in the early engagements, due to permanent pinning(For those who don't know, standard weapons do suppression damage, so if Volley pins someone and then the RE keep shooting, they'll stay pinned). And that's something that, while I enjoy using immensely, needs to be looked at. Even for 20MU, a 160MP capping support squad shouldn't be able to solo a core combat infantry unit.

Rifles

Yes, they are the most expensive backbone infantry in the game, I am not sure if they just beat the hell out of Volks & Grens are fine. If they flank a MG42/MG34, it must retreat or get vaporised, that is good. But after they get the Infantry company LMG, they became a "Hit the Dirt" 360 degree MG squad, just for 60 muni per gun.

So basically you choose Infantry company, equip 6 Browning LMG into 3/4 Rifles, with a BAR Lt, you can theoretically win every engagement. I didn't say A move because wise MG placement can stop that, but German can't stop a good flank because mines are (OKW mine) expensive or (S-mine) avoidable. Ober does not arrive that early and 1 Falls just can't do shit to this LMG spamming.

And tell me, where is America's next tier of infantry? The bill ends at Riflemen and a single Lieutenant squad. The US has no Paznergrenadiers, Fallschirmjager, Panzerfuliser, Obersoldaten, or any other tier-up comabt infantry. Just the Riflemen. So, yeah, I'm not going to shed a tear when people complain about America's only combat infantry squad in the game.

With that said, it is strange that the M1919 comes for 60 munitions, whereas Paratroopers get them for 120. So that needs to be fixed one way or the other by Relic.

But I have to ask, do you not know what a tank is? Fuck, the Flak Halftrack will instantly rape any American infantry in the game. You're complaining to me that an 840-1120MP and 180-240MU investment is doing effective damage to infantry? Admittedly, quite effective damage.

That doesn't "theoretically win every engagement", you just practically lose them. Rife squad engagements with any similarly equipped infantry as highly based on luck in how the damage is spread between the models. Fuck, Rifles can still lose to vetted up Sturmpios.

4 Rifle squads or more is such an easy strategy to punish, it's far too heavy on the manpower, delays all the vitally important teching the USA needs to do, and on top of that has absolutely no lategame payoff.

And 3 Rifles? They get countered by any vehicle other than the damn Kubelwagon or Scout Car. They do absolutely zero AT damage and the only way they'll hurt heavier halftracks is if you're just sitting there while they surround it and shoot it for about a minute.

M15 AA Halftrack

Glass cannon, it can be instantly killed by a Rakentenwerfer and screck, but the DPS is ROFL. Don't tell me it needs to show his vulnerable ass to shoot, because HT has no rear armour penalty.
It has zero setup time, vaporising OKW flak track, Puma, Ostheer 222, or suppress and wipe out any other unlucky Jerry just in 3 seconds. And it comes earlier than a Pak. Comparing to OKW flak track, Allies soldiers can just GTFO before it set up the flak gun.

The Halftrack is very potent, but it is USF's direct counter to the OKW halftrack. It's supposed to win.

And frankly the possibility of Allies still experiencing a squad wipe if they retreat the instant they see the OKW Flak HT is still pretty high. Its splash damage is fucking insane, which is one thing the USF HT does not even compare to.

Unless USF ignore Lieutenant and goes straight for Captain + AT Guns preemptively, they have absolutely nothing to handle the OKW halftrack, except for their own halftrack. It needs to be the way it is or the Lieutenant and his tech branch will never be used. 2 Volk squads with Schreks are more than capable of taking out the American HT, or at the least deterring it, though as with all infantry based AT platforms, that is not the most optimal solution.

As you said, it's a glass cannon. If you take away the DPS, it will need a durability boost. Which would be a fine trade off for me.

But if you nerf the USF HT without properly considering the consequences, you will skew the US-OKW matchup dramatically. I honestly believe that halftrack is the only thing keeping Americans competitive with OKW in the midgame. The instant response I - and all my friends, too - have when I see that OKW flak HT hit the field is "I need to get my Halftrack out NOW". My entire early game is geared towards securing that halftrack's existence as a preemptive counter to the OKW one. It's become so common that in a lot of my games the OKW builds AT before their halftrack, just to screw me up. It's very often that I just see Volks walking around with Schreks by the time I get my Lieutenant into the fight.

The metagame with USF and OKW is very much "He whole halftracks the best, wins".

Just look at top 30 of the USF 1v1 ladder Relic, that is fine?

All you need is follow this BO,

3/4 Rifles, Lt, M15 Halftrack, maybe an ambulance, grab 6-8 Browning LMG, you have won.
If you didn't win, L2P.

P.S. I type this as an USF player.

And given that you've played three times as many games with Oberkommando than USF, I don't think you can claim that you're "an USF player", though that 9 winstreak is compelling me to try this strategy of yours and I will go and do so and try and come back with a far more solid opinion on this matter, but I really don't see you have a fair or balanced portrayal of the situation here.

This thread is so stupid. OKW gets the best inf in the game. You have counters to the AA halftrack with pumas, shrecks and ratten. Honestly since OKW can't abuse truck crush now we see OKW players whine.

Funny thing is Porígon is right this time. REs with volley fire and infantry company blobs are pain in the ass to deal with OKW.

OKW only has a fair chance if they get a good map or the US player sucks. Same story applies to Ostheer vs USF. Atleast OKW can get AT from T0, meanwhile Ostheer is fucked vs early M15 as it rapes everything and forces all of your guys around your 1 pak, if you have 1. If you can survive rifle blobs with arty, tanks rape you.

Stop blobbing then. REs deal zero damage while using volley fire. Can't you close in from some other direction and force retreat them?
And you're bitching about Riflemen with LMGs? Have you seen how literally any American infantry, regardless of vet melts to Obersoldaten?
Idiotic thread.

Stop blobbing then. REs deal zero damage while using volley fire. Can't you close in from some other direction and force retreat them?
And you're bitching about Riflemen with LMGs? Have you seen how literally any American infantry, regardless of vet melts to Obersoldaten?
Idiotic thread.

Having 2 REs is normaly atm and they can so they can suppress 2 squads (160mp + 40muni to get control a part of the map), and don't forget rifles. Rifles in defensive stance with M1919A6 Browning LMG can suppress every german unit in every direction.

With that said, it is strange that the M1919 comes for 60 munitions, whereas Paratroopers get them for 120. So that needs to be fixed one way or the other by Relic.

This is because Paras get two of them, for 120 MU. While Rifles get one, for 60. Two would cost 60 for them, as well. Great response btw. This thread is typical fanboy-ism.

Volley fire being too strong has nothing to do with blobbing.

To be honest for me its not even about faction balance: Volley fire in its current version is simply bad gameplay-wise: It really is an I-Win button you cannot counter by good gameplay (except by avoiding rear echelons all together), cover, range, unit usage all doesent matter. Most of the time you cannot even focus fire the rear echelons, nor avoid them because you have no time to react (volley fire surpresses instantly most of the time, followed by pinning 1-2 seconds later).

Its simply not fun/interesting to use or to play against. Nades can be dodged, smoke can be fired through by attack ground, button can be canceled, volley fire? -> Retreat. Thats it.

A faction shouldnt have to rely on one ability from one unit being too strong. If the US forces will be too weak after a volley fire nerf (they probably wont) then buff them in some form. Volley fire isnt necessary for a victory (at least not in its current form: It should surpress >one< unit so that youre able to deal with sturmpioneers early on) but it makes it much much easier. And thats probably why some people dont want to see it changed

Everyone take a look at 1v1 USA streaks. +26 +25 +18 +16 +9

Compare those stats to the German 1v1 streaks.

You simply cannot disagree with Porygon when there are facts like that.

The rear echelons do not suppress very well when fighting units in green cover..and the only time ive seen instant suppress to pin is when a squad isnt in cover at all or red cover,Or the guy gets caught halfway in cover halfway not.
They SHOULDNT suppress as quick as they do when a unit is in yellow cover,i agree with that. But anything else is exaggeration and QQ.

Ill openly admit i havent played a TON of 1v1 2v2 axis LATELY.
but if its 1v1 RET vs a Sturmpio for example no interference why not just wait till the volley wears off and then attack them. it does barely any damage unless another unit comes to the Aid of the RET,and if they do then 160+280+20 mu should beat a sturmpio and a volks squad thats OUT OF POSITION for example.

I honestly think its balanced.

If they end up upping the cost of volley fire I hope that they give the us some starting munitions. That ability is the only way to counter the initial assault pio.

If they end up upping the cost of volley fire I hope that they give the us some starting munitions. That ability is the only way to counter the initial assault pio.

Or stay in cover at long range and if the opponent is stupid you can kill them easly. Also 1 cp Pathfinders are good vs Pios at long range as well when supported.

Or stay in cover at long range and if the opponent is stupid you can kill them easly. Also 1 cp Pathfinders are good vs Pios at long range as well when supported.

1 CP Pathfinders are not out for the first engagement. They're 1 CP.

Cover is highly situational and depending on map. I could easily just tell you to cap around Rear Echelons, but that's not a viable solution at all.

You simply cannot disagree with Porygon when there are facts like that.

Yes I can.

I am talking about 1v1 of US, any teamgames player please GTFO.

And I am playing Ostheer, OKW, USF in the same portion, ignoring Soviet because I don't like them.