Western Front balance points for the first balance patch

Ok this is the first time that I have sat down and voiced my opinion on the forum about the state of balance in the game. Now I was in the Alpha and have play about 20 or so game after the release of WF so I feel I have a good bases to point out balance issue in my eyes. I will point out the issue and give my reason why they should be fixed. If you disagree with my opinion I would like some feed back on why I am wrong and your ideas on the matter. At the end of the day we all want a fun and balance game to play. The only way we will have this game is if we work together as a community, with relic to make the game better. Also sorry this is going to be long and this will only be on the OKW I will do one for each of the factions latter.

OKW Building Truck
What should be changed.

- Truck should have light vehicle armor.
- Shouldn't come until 3 or 4 minutes into the game
- Shouldn't be able to crush buildings or Inf.

Why we should make these changes.

To start with this unit comes out way to early. This was because of the old way the OKW ECO work before they changed it to what it is now. There is no reason any more for the OKW to have a build truck first thing. They have a AT gun, StormPios, Kübelwagen, and Volksgrenadiers in the first building. They can easily wait 3 to 4 minutes (whatever the time is for a news truck comes in) for the first truck to come out. This would fixes two major problems right now. The ability of the OKW to dig in so fast, while having to do little to hold the are they plant their Battlegroup Headquarters. And, The second problem of the truck crushing infantry in the first minutes of them game would also be fixed. I also feel the truck itself as a free unit shouldn't have any ability to do damage, be it crushing Inf or destroying Buildings.

Sturmpioneer Squad
What should be changed.

-shouldn't be the first unit for the OKW

Why we should make these changes.

The main reason for this is the fact that the SP is too good to be the first unit on the field. It alone can take on any unit that the soviets or americans can make in the first 4 minutes of the game. I don't mine the unit in itself, but i do mine that the OKW get the first one free. This also allows for early blobs to be made for the OKW, and can really hurt the Allies. I feel that if the OKW started with the Volksgrenadiers instead it would be more balanced. Yes they can just make a SP first build, but they have to pay for it and lower the amount of troops they have on the field, which is the reason for high cost units in the first place. They make you choses between cap presence or raw power.

Raketenwerfer 43 Anti-Tank Rocket Launcher
What should be changed.

-cost increase to 320 manpower. Up from 270 manpower.

Why we should make these changes.

Ok the reasons for this change is because the Raketenwerfer is just to good for the low const of 270 manpower. This unit dose just as much damage as a PAK or a ZIS, can retreat, and go into buildings. This is more than enough of a reason to increase the cost. The Raketenwerfer in the end is just better then the other ATs, guns because of the utility, and retreat function. It also has a fast ter down and set up time which makes up for the smaller range and ark. I have had a sherman 3 hit buy these, and seen it take chunks out of soviet heavy tanks like the kv8. Not hard I know but still for 270 man power that can run before I get to deal with it. it seems like a steal.

7.5cm le.IG 18 Infantry Support Gun

What should be changed.

-cost increase to 480 manpower. Up from 420.

Why we should make these changes.

Again these unite is over performing for its cost. It has good accuracy, with its base attack. Can one shot units. It also does good damage to light tanks, and even tanks when vetted up. Has just as good accuracy as the old german mortar, with more damage. IF it is going to stay this cost it needs to have more scatter.

SdKfz 251 "Stuka zu Fuß" Half-track
What should be changed.

-less damage and blast area for each missile
-more scatter on the line.

Why we should make these changes.

Ok here comes the long part. The fact stand that arty in general was nerfed into the ground before WF came out. I have no idea why this was done. They said it was to stop people from bombing other people bases, but because of this nerf we get Inf blobs. The only reason people blob now a days is because they know they can get away with it, without arty to stop them. What does this rant have to do with the SDKFZ you ask. Well because of the nerf to the other factions arty, it mean that the OKW can blob and kill of any other blob or dug in position with one strike with the SDKFZ. This mean the OKW win. The SDKFZ can kill tank, building, inf, and anything else it hits. This is why the SDKFZ need to be nerfed into the ground like the rest of the arty in the game, or the other arty in the game need to be buffed back up to match the SDKFZ. If this is done I will bet you that people will stop blobing for fear of all there Inf being killed in one arty blast. Thus being the game back from A move tactics to spreading your units our and fighting taticly.

Obersoldaten

What should change.

- less health, or easier to hit.
- only good at medium and short range. NOT LONG RANGE.

Why we should make these changes.

I am fine with a unit having higher damage if its costs are high as well, but there should never be a god unit. I am not saying the obersoldaten are god units but they are dam closes. They can easily take any unit on 3 to 1. This is because of the high dps it has and the fact that it is good at long range. This is while all other faction are only good at close to medium range. This is a major problem that has been voiced many times, after the patch that changed the armor of INF and cover system of the game. The fact stand that if relic wants this system to work they cant have units that are good at long range, and if they have them short or medium range units have to have enough armor to close in with the long range unites. In the end most of the maps are not made to allow long range unites be played. This because of open areas with no cover, little areas to flank without running into a MG, or cover that is only given to one side of the map. This and the fact that cover get destroyed and it is to hard to make new cover again shows and need for no Long range unites. So I don't know how much of the Obersoldaten balance problems are the unit or the system. I leave that question to you all.

Infared STG44

WHat should be changed

-shouldn't take away from cover.l
-shouldn't be able to have the accuracy buff will on the move.

Why should we make these changes.

Again just like the Obersoldaten it brakes the system. This upgrade again just gives the OKW inf way to much power and reasons to blob. Reason why are in the Obersoldaten and SdKfz 251 "Stuka zu Fuß" Half-track sections, and the fact that it lowers cover buffs of the attacked INF.

Fallschirmjager
What should be changed.

-Should have AT and AI weapons, one or the other.
-should come from buildings.
-should be way easier to kill like all other close range inf, or other short range inf like shocks, and paratroopers should be just a tuff.

WHy should we make these changes.
Again a lot of the same problems of the Obersoladten, other then the fact that they are close range fights. They still pump out way to much damage, and have AT nades. This alone should be why they shouldn't be allowed to just pop out of building were ever you want. Partisan, and Paratroops are nowhere near this strong and therefore can be easily dealt with. While Fallschirmjager take much more power to stop, and then most of the time make it back to their lines because they are harder to hit. So again they need to either nerf the unit, or make it spon at base.

Well that is it for the OKW, and I know that it seem I am putting a lot of hate on them, but that is the state of the game right now. The fact is that the OKW have balance so far on there side that it is hard to look at the other factions and see what is wrong with them. I will still do this for the other factions however. Thank you for reading and hope to see some feed back.

I like how the title is "western front balance" and the op only speaks of nerfing okw... The only change you mentioned i can get behind is the supply truck crushing units. Thats just silly.

I like how the title is "western front balance" and the op only speaks of nerfing okw... The only change you mentioned i can get behind is the supply truck crushing units. Thats just silly.

+1

Stuff

1.The truck needs to stop crushing people and needs a slight armour reduction but thats it.
2. sp are really no issue this is a blatant l2p moment. they do lots of damage but they are also frail and expensive.
3. srs? yes its mobile but it also has less range and less damage.
4. fine as it is especially when compared to other mortars/ howitzers.
5. its more that other arty are a bit under performing stuka is fine.
6.if they get to vet 5 they are indeed god units. simply make sure they dont get tot vet 5. but these guys are supposed the be the ultimate AI infantry so dont send infantry against them
7. if you remove the mp 44 ability to shoot through cover you have a rather worthless upgrade.
8. they still have 1 armor so they are just as vulnerable as any other squad. so i have no idea why your complaining about the durability . they more useful as support unit then the obersoldaten because of the panzerfaust but they are just as expensive.

OKW starts with less manpower because of starting with sp. Increasing their mp.and giving them a volk squad instead wouldn't really do anything... They'd just make a sp as first unit and then bam, nothing is different than it is now.

Raketen has less range and does not provide units behind it with covert cuz it has no gun shield thingy.

IG is already really expensive, so no.

Obers have no AT, require the flak truck and at 400mp per squad you can really only afford one squad, making them worse at long range would bleed okw too hard. Volks are great utility but their ai capabilities are really poor, okw needs strong elite infantry to actually kill stuff. Furthermore okw has nothing like a p4 or t34 to use as mid game ai.

So yeah truck crushing should go but changing anything else would require buffs in other areas.

OKW starts with less manpower because of starting with sp. Increasing their mp.and giving them a volk squad instead wouldn't really do anything... They'd just make a sp as first unit and then bam, nothing is different than it is now.

Raketen has less range and does not provide units behind it with covert cuz it has no gun shield thingy.

IG is already really expensive, so no.

Obers have no AT, require the flak truck and at 400mp per squad you can really only afford one squad, making them worse at long range would bleed okw too hard. Volks are great utility but their ai capabilities are really poor, okw needs strong elite infantry to actually kill stuff. Furthermore okw has nothing like a p4 or t34 to use as mid game ai.

So yeah truck crushing should go but changing anything else would require buffs in other areas.

Lets not forget poor the accuracy is on the rocketten, at least in my experience is missed ALOT and cant even one shot a m3 scout car unless you crit from the rear....

LOL. It's my buddy Mid! We call him an Allies fanboy, go easy on him guys.

Honestly my current perception is that OKW is under-powered. These are pretty extreme nerfs to consider and would throw things off even worse.

I can't even agree with the theory of most of them. Trucks are obviously a problem and they will be "fixed" at the end of the week but the rest of these suggestions seem to be based off of incomplete information. I agree with Ciez on most of his points.

Racketenwerfer has less range and accuracy than the Pak40 as well as no green cover for the squad.

Obersoldaten are the premier anti-infantry for this faction and are already quite difficult to produce as it stands. They're still easily countered by indirect fire, vehicles and snipers. You can even engage them with some infantry that match them in long range DPS: such as Paratroopers and Riflemen with double LMGs.

I am not so sure that the "Walking Stuka" needs a nerf yet. It saw considerable reigning in during the Alpha. It is expensive and still has a long cooldown on the barrage. I will agree that it is inconsistent to have an artillery unit be so accurate and so good against all targets. It is still an incredible unit but it costs more than any other artillery unit save the Priest Howie Carriage.

Imo balance is pretty good with maybe OKW being slightly underpowered if not for those monster trucks. Why not wait for a few weeks before we start calling for nerfs on either faction so players can develop a meta? A lot of the changes you have mentioned are pretty bad.

I think the Stukka is bad design, but I don't think it's been out long enough to really work out if it's going to break the game. Same goes for most of these things except Crush, which is obviously not working as intended.

Can someone tell me how the OKW economy works now? Apparently it got altered since I last played in the Alpha (didn't play final alpha version).