Official Sturmpioneer thread
Posts: 627
People with the inability to read aside, it is odd that they start the game with a unit that can single-handedly wipe the floor with everyone else's starting unit- up to and including conscripts and riflemen.
It's not like the OKW actually need to build buildings with engineers for tiers. It wouldn't kill them to start with a rifle squad instead of sturmpioneers to help level the initial field.
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Welcome to the internets. Think there's an issue with the game? Omg LTP/Not OP/Dun nerf Muh Baybies.
People with the inability to read aside, it is odd that they start the game with a unit that can single-handedly wipe the floor with everyone else's starting unit- up to and including conscripts and riflemen.
It's not like the OKW actually need to build buildings with engineers for tiers. It wouldn't kill them to start with a rifle squad instead of sturmpioneers to help level the initial field.
Actually, rear echelon troops can beat them easily if you use their ability.
And other starting squads are more building/utility oriented then combat.
Hell, being able to put down mine sweeper alone screams that they are just as much of a combat troop as an utility.
They are fine.
Posts: 30
First units should not outperform others in that way.
I honestly don't see why they shouldn't. Looking at one disconnected aspect of the game doesn't tell you how the rest of it should go.
Let me do essentially what you did for the original post, indirectly adressing a single unbalanced aspect of the game, and coming up with conclusions about it that are just as misguided as yours were.
Official American Man Power thread
American starting MP is not OP; it can be dealt with, but I want to discuss something with the guys here who have big brains.
Compare Oberkommand starting MP - Ostheer starting MP - Soviet starting MP - American starting MP.
Factions should not have more MP to build more units like that.
I understand the idea about having an elite faction, but not that much MP.
Make the starter unit more powerful? sure. But early resources is not good for balance imo.
Anyway, discuss, lads.
Posts: 1571
M1 carbines (rear echelon, airborne, pathfinders) are bad. Garands are OK, like K98's:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkGSN40ocRgCdGxLVExvVUdZYWRTRnVnYi1BTUpjRmc&usp=drive_web#gid=0
Posts: 871
I like having them, adds some variety to the early game.
Posts: 627
Balanced as fuck.
Wouldn't be as big of a deal if the Truck wasn't so OP.
Posts: 783 | Subs: 3
Posts: 219
Actually, rear echelon troops can beat them easily if you use their ability.
And other starting squads are more building/utility oriented then combat.
Watched many streams today, and not many players were using this ability. I think it was exactly made to help counter the Sturmpioniere, hence the importance of Echelons in the US build... but hey, I guess whining is easier than using the right ingame mechanics.
Posts: 2053
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
I honestly don't see why they shouldn't. Looking at one disconnected aspect of the game doesn't tell you how the rest of it should go.
Let me do essentially what you did for the original post, indirectly adressing a single unbalanced aspect of the game, and coming up with conclusions about it that are just as misguided as yours were.
Official American Man Power thread
American starting MP is not OP; it can be dealt with, but I want to discuss something with the guys here who have big brains.
Compare Oberkommand starting MP - Ostheer starting MP - Soviet starting MP - American starting MP.
Factions should not have more MP to build more units like that.
I understand the idea about having an elite faction, but not that much MP.
Make the starter unit more powerful? sure. But early resources is not good for balance imo.
Anyway, discuss, lads.
What if I told you that starting unit cost+starting mp=500 for all factions?
More or less that is the idea.
Posts: 665
Maybe having 2-3 Rear echelons might do it, to use rifle volley more often. But then you're in huge trouble as soon as vehicles start hitting the field because they scale horribly.
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
I do think it's a bit silly that you are forced to glue your rifles to green cover or 2v1 them while spending ammo with rear echelons to be able to beat the OKW's starting unit. Sure, they're expensive to reinforce, but 2-3 of them, if used well, can wrestle map control like nobody's business and USF don't have any reliable early counters. Grenades are too expensive and lack punch, BARs at 60 ammo apiece come too late, more rifles won't help unless you play heavily on the defensive since they drop like flies to MP44s. The Lieutenant tangles with them well enough but 50 fuel is a lot and means no ambulance for you.
Maybe having 2-3 Rear echelons might do it, to use rifle volley more often. But then you're in huge trouble as soon as vehicles start hitting the field because they scale horribly.
Well, too bad sturm pios loose to rifles if rifles are kept at range and if he approaches you, he WILL loose mdoels and the fight.
Posts: 1571
Posts: 1595 | Subs: 2
Posts: 665
Well, too bad sturm pios loose to rifles if rifles are kept at range and if he approaches you, he WILL loose mdoels and the fight.
That's pure RNG, however. Yeah, I've had rifles shred incoming Sturms and force a retreat with barely a model loss; other times the Sturms arrive losing 1 model max and then they wipe the floor with the rifles in seconds. If the Sturms are in equal cover at medium or short range, however, they win. Given that this engagement can easily dictate the tempo of the entire early game, rolling the dice like that is just not acceptable.
Posts: 747
Sturmpios are a unit where if you don't know how to fight them, it's impossible. Hence all the complaining.
+1
Posts: 577
Close range Sturmpios beat rifles.
Mid range it's pretty equal.
Long range Rifles beat Sturmpios.
Besides that as was said, Volley fire.
1 Rear Echelon + 1 Rifle easily beat 2 Sturmpios with Volley fire. Even one Rear Echelon sometimes manages to beat 2 Sturmpios if you know how to use it.
Posts: 1130
Positioning.
Close range Sturmpios beat rifles.
Mid range it's pretty equal.
Long range Rifles beat Sturmpios.
What he says, But even fighting at midrange is a win for the ami's as they likely to lose less mp then the okw player. the only way a okw can cost effectively win from an rifle squad is to engage them point blank without taking any damage getting their. that means ambushing because using to fight rifleman in cover is brutally inefficient.
Posts: 344
Posts: 2053
And what about Soviet players? Are we just supposed to sit there and scratch our balls? Oh yes, Maxim spam, that'll counter the SPs! Not that I'll be left open to an LV rush and in team games I'll just get mortar blobbed to death (seems to be a new 'thing' in PvP pub matches--OKW goes SP blobs into Obersoldaten, Wehr spams MGs and mortars and sits on their hands until they can crank out Tigers en masse)...
Or m3's. Either one will push OKW off mid and back to their base. T2 hardcounters everything OKW makes.
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