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russian armor

Panther overnerfed

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11 Jun 2014, 01:25 AM
#81
avatar of ThoseDeafMutes

Posts: 1026

I wake up in the morning and the thread has lost its mind. Eesh.

Panther is underperforming and will get a buff either directly or indirectly. I'd bet money on it. The Ostheer *needs* rebalancing to make more units and commanders viable competitively. It's in a pretty stale spot as far as I can tell with Tiger / Ele doctrines clearly leaving their peers in the dust for team games and T4 being pretty ill-advised generally.

Of course this is all moot if the new factions wreck the balance for another 5 patches anyway ;)
11 Jun 2014, 01:34 AM
#82
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

Panther performs fine, it just needs the cost adjusted and maybe T4 to be more accessible.
11 Jun 2014, 03:11 AM
#83
avatar of y3ivan

Posts: 157

panther is fine at 175 fuel when compared to T34/85 at 130 fuel, for performance vs cost

It has better frontal armor than t34/85 maingun that has 59% chance of pen.Its like comparing T34/76 vs PanzerIV

It biggest problem right now is that T34/85 does not require teching.
11 Jun 2014, 03:21 AM
#84
avatar of austerlitz

Posts: 1705

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Jun 2014, 03:11 AMy3ivan
panther is fine at 175 fuel when compared to T34/85 at 130 fuel, for performance vs cost

It has better frontal armor than t34/85 maingun that has 59% chance of pen.Its like comparing T34/76 vs PanzerIV

It biggest problem right now is that T34/85 does not require teching.


And that panther requires huge teching,and that t-34 can easily 2 shot squads,and that it has same health as panther,and that they happen to have a rather cheap mark target ability which render pen irrelevant.And that with 2 tanks...one will always more or less flank u.
11 Jun 2014, 03:34 AM
#85
avatar of JHeartless

Posts: 1637



And that panther requires huge teching,and that t-34 can easily 2 shot squads,and that it has same health as panther,and that they happen to have a rather cheap mark target ability which render pen irrelevant.And that with 2 tanks...one will always more or less flank u.


Because armored assault and advanced warfare don't exist.

But your right on the tech cost part.
11 Jun 2014, 07:12 AM
#86
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 807

Whoever says that Panther is fine as it is (cost and performance) needs to L2P or play germans from time to time and use only Panthers. And at every lost battle, they should pay 100 bucks. After that, we can begin to talk.

Related to Panther performances - you are afraid of its former efficiency? Then let Panther as it is, but derease costs. And this should be substantial, otherwise the presence of panther on the battlefield will be no frequent than it is today.

I'm talking about 130 fuel cost, and a small decrease on mp also (like 20).
11 Jun 2014, 07:25 AM
#87
avatar of y3ivan

Posts: 157

Its not regarding to Panther underperforming. Its the matter of Teching vs Call-in.

Why would you want to waste fuel teching, when you could call-in units at the same price.

playing 4v4 with luftwaffe supply and opel blitz. Germans could spam Panthers faster than Callin units even with 175 fuel each.
11 Jun 2014, 07:31 AM
#88
avatar of Volsky

Posts: 344

I can't wait till WA comes out and we get modding support. I get to implement my mod and fling utter, unceasing statistical historical accuracy in and not bother with this forum's incessant balance whining.

Anything remotely powerful or slightly easy to use on the Germans side is fine, and the Soviets need to L2P. Anything that needs a little extra effort to obtain, or that doesn't ream everything in front of it is utterly useless and needs a buff. Now replace 'German' with 'Soviet' and repeat. That's what this forum seems to be, in a nutshell. Le sigh. Even the War Thunder forums are more objective than this.
11 Jun 2014, 07:41 AM
#89
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 807

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Jun 2014, 07:25 AMy3ivan
Its not regarding to Panther underperforming. Its the matter of Teching vs Call-in.

Why would you want to waste fuel teching, when you could call-in units at the same price.

playing 4v4 with luftwaffe supply and opel blitz. Germans could spam Panthers faster than Callin units even with 175 fuel each.


I don't give a.... on 4v4 games and neather should you, if you want to talk about balance. Stop posting nonsense.
11 Jun 2014, 07:42 AM
#90
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 807

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Jun 2014, 07:31 AMVolsky
I can't wait till WA comes out and we get modding support. I get to implement my mod and fling utter, unceasing statistical historical accuracy in and not bother with this forum's incessant balance whining.

Anything remotely powerful or slightly easy to use on the Germans side is fine, and the Soviets need to L2P. Anything that needs a little extra effort to obtain, or that doesn't ream everything in front of it is utterly useless and needs a buff. Now replace 'German' with 'Soviet' and repeat. That's what this forum seems to be, in a nutshell. Le sigh. Even the War Thunder forums are more objective than this.


Player card, please. Now.
11 Jun 2014, 07:45 AM
#91
avatar of Burts

Posts: 1702

Whoever says that Panther is fine as it is (cost and performance) needs to L2P or play germans from time to time and use only Panthers. And at every lost battle, they should pay 100 bucks. After that, we can begin to talk.

Related to Panther performances - you are afraid of its former efficiency? Then let Panther as it is, but derease costs. And this should be substantial, otherwise the presence of panther on the battlefield will be no frequent than it is today.

I'm talking about 130 fuel cost, and a small decrease on mp also (like 20).



Ok, so a t-34/85 costs 130 fuel and you want a panther buff statwise AND also being 130 fuel? WHAT?

Also mark target does not increase penetration chance, it only increases damage done when penetrated.


Flanking a panther with 85s is a very hard thing to do, because panther has the same speed as an 85.
11 Jun 2014, 07:48 AM
#92
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 807

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Jun 2014, 07:45 AMBurts



Ok, so a t-34/85 costs 130 fuel and you want a panther buff statwise AND also being 130 fuel? WHAT?

Also mark target does not increase penetration chance, it only increases damage done when penetrated.


Flanking a panther with 85s is a very hard thing to do, because panther has the same speed as an 85.


No, man, I want a cost decrease OR a unit buff, not both. That would be stupid, of course and will throw again the balance to garbage.
11 Jun 2014, 07:56 AM
#93
avatar of Von Kluge
Patrion 14

Posts: 3548 | Subs: 2

Please note that mod support is not confirmed when WFA comes out.
11 Jun 2014, 09:14 AM
#94
avatar of austerlitz

Posts: 1705

Back to 145 fuel would be alright actuallyalong with a little teching balancing and a tech requirement for call ins.
11 Jun 2014, 12:11 PM
#95
avatar of Cardboard Tank

Posts: 978

I´d like to see them become a bit more survivable. Either in the form of more health or more frontal armor. Right now they blow up too fast. That´s their flaw, they can´t deliver a punch, because they have to immediately retreat.

Only lowering the cost would still mean that Panthers could get lolrushed by mediums. The only difference would be another useless Panther 20 seconds earlier.
11 Jun 2014, 14:37 PM
#96
avatar of austerlitz

Posts: 1705

I´d like to see them become a bit more survivable. Either in the form of more health or more frontal armor. Right now they blow up too fast. That´s their flaw, they can´t deliver a punch, because they have to immediately retreat.

Only lowering the cost would still mean that Panthers could get lolrushed by mediums. The only difference would be another useless Panther 20 seconds earlier.


Not if u make call in mediums more difficult/costly to access simultaneously.
11 Jun 2014, 15:16 PM
#97
avatar of JHeartless

Posts: 1637

Buff Panther back to 960 HPs increase cost to 190 fuel (sense it will now beat the piss out of the IS2 as well as everything else as a true TD). Lower Tech cost to BP4.

Or lower Panther cost to 140 fuel leave it as is. Leave tech cost as is.

I really dont think it should be better than it is. If used properly and you use all its advantages it is a great unit. It does require micro to stop from getting shots the the rear but I have done tests and had it beat two Shermans at once. As long as I reverse and dont let them behind it.

It is hardly a bad unit. But I dont think you guys want a good unit. You want the old Panther from what I can tell. Something that just can A move through all opposition.
11 Jun 2014, 15:30 PM
#98
avatar of austerlitz

Posts: 1705

Buff Panther back to 960 HPs increase cost to 190 fuel (sense it will now beat the piss out of the IS2 as well as everything else as a true TD). Lower Tech cost to BP4.

Or lower Panther cost to 140 fuel leave it as is. Leave tech cost as is.

I really dont think it should be better than it is. If used properly and you use all its advantages it is a great unit. It does require micro to stop from getting shots the the rear but I have done tests and had it beat two Shermans at once. As long as I reverse and dont let them behind it.

It is hardly a bad unit. But I dont think you guys want a good unit. You want the old Panther from what I can tell. Something that just can A move through all opposition.


140-45 fuel is alright..provided medium call ins are somewhat controlled,so teching is actually worthwhile.
11 Jun 2014, 15:59 PM
#99
avatar of WiFiDi
Honorary Member Badge

Posts: 3293

if buffing it is done i still think a price reduction will be needed what i would if you were to buff it would be to lower the price so its total fuel is a maximum of 165 fuel (maybe even lower) then buff accordingly to whatever value is determined.

i really do think just lowering them to 145 makes them almost no-brainers which isn't what you want. you want them to option among the many other options. and panthers do feel a bit UP to me espeically ocnsidering the price but even ignoring the price this patch though i haven't honestly played that much recently.

to me 155 seems like a nice number. :)

also werfer please get buffed it sucks moneky balls now. :(
11 Jun 2014, 16:00 PM
#100
avatar of braciszek

Posts: 2053

I just dont like teching to tier 4 at all. Its too expensive, panzerwerfer sucks, brummbar is only a support weapon, and teching and buying a panther is extremely trivial. What made the panther evil was the combination of ultimate armor, super speed blitz, and loads of health. All of that has been nerfed, so it is no longer a super tank, just a pretty good tank. It doesnt need to cost so much. It should cost the same as before, because at least then it can be considered worth buying. Soviet tier 4 is optional, but it too only has the Su-85, but at least that is affordable.
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