Current balance for both faction

General:
1.Please display support weapon health bar.

2.Avoid map only has no open area, for instance, Starlingrad, a good map will contain most of the good elements, close range combat, open ground for armor movement,etc. that map makes player extremely hard to control their armor unit.

3. why call-in should not cost fuel? remember, call in unit doesnt need anytime to produce, if i can spend most of fuel just for call in unit, why i bother spend additional fuel for tier building, this makes tier building less important in the game, i would suggest increase the manpower cost of call-in unit, but reduce the fuel cost. the whole point of tier building is:
you spend fuel, you can spend less manpower.
but call-in unit with fuel cost ruin this rule.

Soviet:
1. conscript is okay now, but early-game penal flame thrower spam should be looked at, Grenadier has to wait for phase 1 to get MG, six-man squad SVT rifle plus flamer thrower makes them quite powerful in early game, the penal manpower cost should be higher, around 320, i suggest.

2. Soviet mine is quite frustrating, sometimes wipe out whole squad, make soviet mine like Vcoh, it will only reduce the health of full health squad but kill solider when the squad is low health.

3. Soviet sniper range should be decreased,only 80% of german sniper range, two-men squad already increase its survivability, makes it very hard to counter thorough out the game, German player never use sniper to counter sniper because same cost, same range, but only only man.

4. ISU-152 range should be decreased, but increase its rotating speed, this long range assault gun just can see too far.

5. KV-8 sometimes kill infantry instantly, sometimes do little damage, my suggestion is KV-8 will reduce the health of squad first, the entity of that squad takes the damage evenly until the health reduce a certain level, solider will die.

German:
1.Grenadier can fight well when in cover, but panzergrenadier is the least cost-efficient unit now, it deserves same armor like shock troop.

2.Panzerfaust range should be increased a little bit,.

3.Tiger killing infantry quite effectively, it will wipe out squad in couple of shots, i am not quite sure how to fix that, because tiger is quite expensive, allow tiger to switch between HE and AP round?

4. reduce the range of elephant as well, elephant deserves some Anti-infantry ability, it is a quite huge investment, comparing with ISU-152 which can both counter armor and infantry.

Balance? What balance?

Soviet has some problem too, u know:
1. Going penal + flamethrower spam means u got absolutely no defense against SC. Penal scales very bad in mid and late game.
4. Ele has the same view range and it can get the scope.

German
2. Lol no, short of IS-2, panzerfaust crit every Soviet armor while AT grenade sometimes can't even pen the Stug.
4. Ele + MG/Stug and Soviet can't do anything. ISU only counter tanks if it is far away, T-34s have trouble penning Ele rear.

Soviet has some problem too, u know:
1. Going penal + flamethrower spam means u got absolutely no defense against SC. Penal scales very bad in mid and late game.

Why are you worried? Try everything else. It's easy.

4. Ele has the same view range and it can get the scope.

Yeah, tz tz tz.... nerf the fucking buster! Germans should not be allowed to have a reliable AT against hevies.

German
2. Lol no, short of IS-2, panzerfaust crit every Soviet armor while AT grenade sometimes can't even pen the Stug.

Right, let's nerf even more PzGrens. Hell, no, better let's make schrecks cost 200 AMO!

4. Ele + MG/Stug and Soviet can't do anything. ISU only counter tanks if it is far away, T-34s have trouble penning Ele rear.

Oh...poor soviets... you make me cry.... There is one tactic they cannot trololol... Really? You didn't play enough.

Why are you worried? Try everything else. It's easy.



Yeah, tz tz tz.... nerf the fucking buster! Germans should not be allowed to have a reliable AT against hevies.



Right, let's nerf even more PzGrens. Hell, no, better let's make schrecks cost 200 AMO!



Oh...poor soviets... you make me cry.... There is one tactic they cannot trololol... Really? You didn't play enough.

says the guy that has a 5 digit rank as soviets and doesnt even have a 1v1 rank as soviets...

says the guy that has a 5 digit rank as soviets and doesnt even have a 1v1 rank as soviets...

That's unfair. His rank as Germans isn't that far away from being 5 digits either...

@SSHeini if you wanted to "troll" you are doing it wrong. Some of your quotes don´t even make sense.


General
3- Way too big of a change and dunno how it will repercute on the meta. No map control? It doesn´t matter, play a mp atrittion and go for call ins. (I still prefer the TA gettting some fuel requirements with a lesser penalization while alive)

Soviets:

1- By the time he gets muni for flamer (depending on map and map control) you should be close for searching BP1.
Penals scale bad in midgame and you can control them with some micro and 222.

3- Nope. If anything, blobing sniper should be penalized "vcoh" style. Decrease cloaking capabilities, decrease RoF, your choice.

5- That´s not how flamers work.

German:

1- PG feels like old glasscannon Penals. Just reduce cost if they are not "cost effective".
2- Nope.

I'm really tired of this utter Sniper Soviet bullshit.
I don't fucking care about asymmetrical balance. Relic can take it and shove it. I couldn't care less. I want balanced game!


By the way:

I just found out that new American army will have Sniper team with 2 snipers and 2 observers in it.
4 men Sniper squad! Yey!

I'm really tired of this utter Sniper Soviet bullshit.
I don't fucking care about asymmetrical balance. Relic can take it and shove it. I couldn't care less. I want balanced game!


By the way:

I just found out that new American army will have Sniper team with 2 snipers and 2 observers in it.
4 men Sniper squad! Yey!

It's not exactly a sniper team, I think. But I do agree with you that soviet sniper has very little to counter it right now.

Last game I had scout car parked literally in the face of Soviet sniper and sniper managed to run away to safety.
The other game I had 2 PzIV (!) and I am absolutely serious about it shooting at sniper squad (I right click it) and it managed to survive 3 shoots, lost 1 man and run away.

yes, snipers needs to be worked out, but i dont see how conscripts are actually okay. they are not. they perform fairly only against vanilla grens, badly microed assault grens, osttruppen and pioneers.

upgraded grens completely outclass them at all ranges and can take 2 conscript squads easily with rifle grenades.

the only reason why they seem to be able to run around freely now is because of the difficulty in countering snipers, current trend of maxim spam and isu152 capable of killing them from range.

fix these and soviet infantry will crumble.

I just found out that new American army will have Sniper team with 2 snipers and 2 observers in it.
4 men Sniper squad! Yey!

At the risk of summoning the NDA gods down upon me, no they don't.

Burts and Neo

I appologize to your fanboyism. I hurt its feelings.

By the way:

I just found out that new American army will have Sniper team with 2 snipers and 2 observers in it.
4 men Sniper squad! Yey!

I'm in the Alpha and actually you're wrong, it's a 200 man sniper team and each model fires faster than a german sniper.

snip

You'd better edit that, because you know, NDA and stuff.

I'm in the Alpha and actually you're wrong, it's a 200 man sniper team and each model fires faster than a german sniper.

I like this idea of sniper teams with some more staying power but on the other hand it might lead to even more sniper spam

Another thing regarding sniper balance no one really consider that much.
If you build 2 Soviet sniper teams and attack with both of them a single Grenadier squad it will cause the retreat as the second salvo will wipe the squad.
Now if you use this against Soviets and use double German snipers you will only kill the third of the squad meaning you will have to shoot once more to threaten with squad wipe. I guess it's kind of OK as German sniper shoots faster but in reality 2 Soviet sniper squads will force a retreat after single shoot which means less German infantry presence on the battlefield.
I wouldn't really mind this if I was able to counter them effectively but unfortunately that's not the case. Even in 1v1 at the time my scout car is out there will be Guard squad waiting to counter it.

1v1 snipers are fine.

Keep in mind that even non upgraded grens can do decent damage to soviet snipers at range. G43 countering snipers might be over, but now use LMG 42 instead.
If he gets more than one sniper in 1v1, you can just make lots of grens and just simply walk forward, yes you might have to retreat 1-2 squads. But in the end you will force the snipers away.



Keep in mind that a gren squad almost does 2x more damage than a cons squad at range, when you factor the extra damage, the soviet sniper doens't really have any survivability advantage at all.

1v1 snipers are fine.

Keep in mind that even non upgraded grens can do decent damage to soviet snipers at range. G43 countering snipers might be over, but now use LMG 42 instead.
If he gets more than one sniper in 1v1, you can just make lots of grens and just simply walk forward, yes you might have to retreat 1-2 squads. But in the end you will force the snipers away.



Keep in mind that a gren squad almost does 2x more damage than a cons squad at range, when you factor the extra damage, the soviet sniper doens't really have any survivability advantage at all.

are high or something? the previous g43 had 40 range and 85% FOTM in fact a lmg squad has even less chance of catching a sniper team then a regular gren squad.

hmm..has anyone battled 2v2 where soviets do Sniper > Guards spam > KV2 / ISU152 spam on that loved map called Semosiky? Literally, I had 0 infantry at late game, not kidding lol.

Squad wipes seems balanced.