ISU-152 (solution inside)

Not entirely true. Your HMG will do shit in front of the ZIS guns in my previous example. You can use infantry neither to kill the ZIS guns bercause the ISU behind will erase it. So if you know what you are doing you will slowly push the Elefant with its entire suite to the edge of the map.
An Elefant can deny all armor but an ISU can deny everything. You still can cap in front of an Elefant, you cannot cap in front of an ISU without loosing all infantry that is trying to do that. Capping will win you the game eventualy, not killing the opponent's tanks. Can you put aside your fanboyism a little and see the difference? The other reasons were stated by many before so I won't count them again.
That is the reason for which I am sure ISU is OP but it's quite debatable if Elefant is.

Dude I'm bored of this fanboy shit so let's stop it both okay?

In my opinion both units should be removed from the game. Why? Because their design is balanced in a bad way. Look at the commanders, they can easily counter their counter, the howitzers. WTF is this shit? I'm reall worried because Relic said they won't rework the commanders. However this is really necessary!
Next problem is the worth of veteran units. They get killed so easily that they lose their worth during the game because imba units come to the field. I think going back to old veterancy system would be good! Balanced of course, so that the amount of veterancy is related to the size of the squad.

Not entirely true. Your HMG will do shit in front of the ZIS guns in my previous example. You can use infantry neither to kill the ZIS guns bercause the ISU behind will erase it. So if you know what you are doing you will slowly push the Elefant with its entire suite to the edge of the map.
An Elefant can deny all armor but an ISU can deny everything. You still can cap in front of an Elefant, you cannot cap in front of an ISU without loosing all infantry that is trying to do that. Capping will win you the game eventualy, not killing the opponent's tanks. Can you put aside your fanboyism a little and see the difference? The other reasons were stated by many before so I won't count them again.
That is the reason for which I am sure ISU is OP but it's quite debatable if Elefant is.

All that doesn't matter since Ele will 3 shoot ISU from across the map. After 2 shoots ISU usually retreats.

All that doesn't matter since Ele will 3 shoot ISU from across the map. After 2 shoots ISU usually retreats.

4-shoot, 3 shoot was pre-patch. Remember that with 8seconds reload time, every shot matters.

Or...just watch Hans/Ivan vs Ciez/OMGPOP replay and see what Ciez used to counter elefant, 5 ZIS GUNS. Did it success? Yes. How many squads wiped by ISU? (one ISU had 80 kills, the other 30, and the other didnt had enough time on the battlefield)

Can I have a link please? I would like to see this one.

Sure bro, here it is:

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  3

  VS

  RtN.CieZ NSPlayer

  mTw.HelpingHans mTw.VonIvan

  CieZ/OMGPOP vs VonIvan/Hans - Epic Game

  by: CieZ map: Minsk Pocket

  1

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Who else likes attacking ISU and its support with Spearhead commander? (Tiger tank, frag bomb, 3 infantry squads) Mechanized assault also works (light howie, Tiger, 3 infantry squads)

that replay while somewhat entertaining, but shows so much problems within the 2v2 meta gameplay and its not limited to isu and elefants.

it seems to me, the whole soviet army is based on clutch units, mg spam and snipers to hold off gren spam and mg combo. infantry like conscripts and guards are either recrew teams or rifle nade bait.

then midgame is all about AT guns to hold off german armour and entire soviet army scrambling to support them or recrew them.

lastly, late game is just spamming isu152 and supporting it better than the german can with their elefant.

what happened to the fluid infantry combat in vcoh? here we have are conscripts and guards being outclassed terribly by grenadiers once LMGs pop in and rifle nades being extremely difficult to dodge, while grens are being shut down hard by stupid shit like isu152 and their 1 shot capability.

what happened to tank combat? tigers are great, t34s are great but here we have are isu152 and elefants dominating tank combat at all levels.

this replays shows that these 2 100range tanks need to be gone from the game. also infantry balance has to be refined.

honestly, majority of the problems in coh2 can be fixed if isu152 and elefants are gone. the only things that can really 1-2 shot stuff after are the brumbar, is-2, tigers, which these tanks have to be exposed to enemy fire, which actually gives the recipient a fighting chance to prevent 1 shots from happening by preparing for them with AT guns that out ranges them terribly. once the isu152 is gone, having elefants is overkill and OPed for the germans, so it has to go together with the isu152.

which all is left are a few tweaks to tank combat and an upgrade package to make conscripts = LMG grenadiers for late game.

This replay shows almost ever key problem with balance atm.

Soviet snipers being some commando uber super soldier capable of withstanding concentrated fire,

Germans really struggle to preserve their infantry late game, or to preserve infantry at all,

Soviet support weapons being almost indestructible

StuGs, although very powerful units, being pointless against anything else than T-34 and soviet meta atm revolves around heavy call ins.

How stupid ISU-152 is

but at the same time how easy it is to counter it with Elephant.

This replay shows almost ever key problem with balance atm.

Soviet snipers being some commando uber super soldier capable of withstanding concentrated fire,

Germans really struggle to preserve their infantry late game, or to preserve infantry at all,

Soviet support weapons being almost indestructible

StuGs, although very powerful units, being pointless against anything else than T-34 and soviet meta atm revolves around heavy call ins.

How stupid ISU-152 is

but at the same time how easy it is to counter it with Elephant.

+1

This is an example of ISU vs Tiger that I was advocating. Tigers trump ISU once in range and overall can help you more than an elefant. German T3 like P4s are too fragile, and from skipping around, this ISU knocks out 3 of them before it is easily KO'ed by the tiger.

This is why I don't really find the ISU as OP as others do.

skip to 32:00



My game plan currently is to go T3, Stug III G then to Tigers.

This replay shows almost ever key problem with balance atm.

Soviet snipers being some commando uber super soldier capable of withstanding concentrated fire,

Germans really struggle to preserve their infantry late game, or to preserve infantry at all,

Soviet support weapons being almost indestructible

StuGs, although very powerful units, being pointless against anything else than T-34 and soviet meta atm revolves around heavy call ins.

How stupid ISU-152 is

but at the same time how easy it is to counter it with Elephant.

+1

This is an example of ISU vs Tiger that I was advocating. Tigers trump ISU once in range and overall can help you more than an elefant. German T3 like P4s are too fragile, and from skipping around, this ISU knocks out 3 of them before it is easily KO'ed by the tiger.

This is why I don't really find the ISU as OP as others do.

what game mode are you playing most? It's certainly easier to deal with in 1v1 but in 2v2+ it's a whole different story.

Mostly 3 v 3, sometimes 4 v 4.

I've had this game for a year and I still use the same tactic vs ISU (pre and post patch).

Spearhead doctrine (my fav Ost doctrine).

- As soon as the ISU appears, Recon first with Air or forces
-Plan flank attack, use 1-2 tigers + 2-3 infantry units
-hoard munitions enough for 1 frag bomb and smoke. Attack with infantry far forward to point blank of ISU, single mindedly chase ISU with Tiger (while ignoring everything else), use infantry against infantry/support weapons and drop frag bomb on Zis or Maxims.

The Elbe day patch buffs do not really change the effectiveness of this tactic by that much IMO.

If they let you come closer to them even with an ISU, something is going wrong with their skill level, dude

If they let you come closer to them even with an ISU, something is going wrong with their skill level, dude

Agree.

This is an example of ISU vs Tiger that I was advocating. Tigers trump ISU once in range and overall can help you more than an elefant. German T3 like P4s are too fragile, and from skipping around, this ISU knocks out 3 of them before it is easily KO'ed by the tiger.

This is why I don't really find the ISU as OP as others do.

skip to 32:00

My game plan currently is to go T3, Stug III G then to Tigers.

I agree with other commentators that I suspect the skill level this works against is lower than your own.

Also you posted a video of a tiger ace defeating an ISU 152, and of course most players will be using a regular vanilla tiger, which is much harder to do this with. Don't forget the range increases the firing speed increases, and the accuracy increases that the vet brings to the table.

I have found in the larger games ISU-152's are all but unstoppable to anything but an elephant. Really, really boring meta right now.

If they let you come closer to them even with an ISU, something is going wrong with their skill level, dude

or they just got outplayed at that very moment. just because elephant/isu get flanked, that doesn't mean the user is a scrub.

or they just got outplayed at that very moment. just because elephant/isu get flanked, that doesn't mean the user is a scrub.

Outplay a supported Isu152 with high skilled players even in both sides, without elefant or pak43? Impossible, or the ISU player fell asleep..

Outplay a supported Isu152 with high skilled players even in both sides, without elefant or pak43? Impossible, or the ISU player fell asleep..

it's really hard to flank these monstrosities during nulls in between the battles. but when things heat up, then you can flank more easily.

Yep, the term is 'fix and flank'. It is not a frontal attack.

2 v 2, late game tiger spam knocking out many SUs, zis, and ISUs with no loss:



Note that one of the players is using Elite Troops. The other one is using Assault Support.

Please don't post these unsupported ISU replays. Of course if I catch an ISU off-guard I won't forgive it, but, geez I dunno, I never found an unsuported one. And I was playing at 2500 - 2800 level 2v2 (leaderboard place) so against middle players. And every single team used ISU and every single team beat the crap out of everything tried to "flank" ISU. Who are you playing with?