Soviets still have no infantry based AT

iTzDusty, I don't even know what to say...But after that steaming pile you laid we should definitely get locked now. But for good measure....

I see you keep talking about AT nades but there is a little problem with them...
Faust always stuns even IS-2 or ISU. AT nades can't even stun Pz4... Very often it just slides over the armor...

Faust hardly penetrate IS2/ISU152 this patch(at least for me)

Faust is very unreliable for causing engine damage on heavy tanks. I seem to recall that AT nades and Fausts are more likely to work properly if they hit rear armor, although I might have been imagining that. An AT nade is very reliable for enging damaging a PZIV I assure you.

Faust is very unreliable for causing engine damage on heavy tanks. I seem to recall that AT nades and Fausts are more likely to work properly if they hit rear armor, although I might have been imagining that. An AT nade is very reliable for enging damaging a PZIV I assure you.

Less reliable than a faust against a T-34 though. AT nade is even more unreliable once the Panzer 4 gets vet 2.

Think about this - germans have only 1 viable infantry unit in the whole game ( if you dont buy DLCS like myself) since the huge Pgren nerf ( just too expensive to feild for the impact)

Lets count the soviets, cons, penals, shocks, guards.

Do you still think they need AT infantry? just about every infantry unit they field ( except for shocks) has some sort of ability to hurt / slow tanks and the army has massive weapon team numbers for durability.

On top of this soviet tanks are now much more powerful and can almost stand toe to toe with germans ( with the t34 76) and definitely stand toe to toe with t34 85, is2, isu152 ect

In short soviets do not need at infantry or they would be just too powerful - some argue that they already are in this patch as cons = grens for cheaper , with less likely chance to be wiped and still insane kills with molatov.

Think about this - germans have only 1 viable infantry unit in the whole game ( if you dont buy DLCS like myself) since the huge Pgren nerf ( just too expensive to feild for the impact)

Panzer Grens are still viable you just have to learn how to use them. Cant just attack move to the enemy any more.

Lets count the soviets, cons, penals, shocks, guards.

You cannot have Guards and & Conscripts at the same time. If you come up against someone using 3 different types of infantry then they will be heavily vulnerable to armour and will likely have quite a large MP drain as well.

Grenadiers are a much better all round unit. With LMG they scale far better into the late game and they only lose a bit of close range dps but gain mid and long range in the process. Also increases their damage vs light vehicles. If you have a commander with G43's then they get a decent boost in close range as well. Panzerfaust is also generally more effective than AT nade.

Conscripts are generally pretty good this patch, but still require 50 fuel to become effective. Grens start with Panzerfaust and unlock Rifle grenade when they tech up anyway. Using PPSH gives them great close range dps but ruins long and mid range dps.

Penals are decent at close to mid range but lack AT. Satchel charge can be used but to be honest, your vehicles really shouldn't be suffering damage from sachel charges if they are being micro'd properly.

Guards require 75 muni to become useful. Their dps aint fantastic without it. They have a long aim time which can make them quite ineffective vs fast targets and they don't do very much damage to tanks compared to Panzerfausts (which seem to have a very fast aiming time compared to PTRS)

Shocks are great at close range but their dps is terrible outside of that. They have 0 AT either.

Do you still think they need AT infantry? just about every infantry unit they field ( except for shocks) has some sort of ability to hurt / slow tanks and the army has massive weapon team numbers for durability.

2/4 isn't "just about every unit" and you can argue regarding the effectiveness of them as AT. Also since when was 6 considered massive? Soviets do have more infantry available but Grenadiers are a better all round unit able to fulfil several roles without needing to be 3 different units.

On top of this soviet tanks are now much more powerful and can almost stand toe to toe with germans ( with the t34 76) and definitely stand toe to toe with t34 85, is2, isu152 ect

Soviet armour has generally been inferior for some time and has finally been put on a much more level playing field. I generally find Panzer 4's can kill T-34/76's and sometimes T-34/85's. Once again you cannot field all 3 of those tanks because they are doctrinal. Tiger is still a very good tank right now.

In short soviets do not need at infantry or they would be just too powerful - some argue that they already are in this patch as cons = grens for cheaper

Grens have several advantages over Conscripts especially into late game. Also they have the same manpower cost so how are they cheaper?

with less likely chance to be wiped and still insane kills with molatov.

Soviet squads still get 2 shot by Tigers and Brumbars and the Panzer 4 still does reasonable damage. They are not immune to armour just because they have 2 extra squad members.

What exactly do you class as insane kills? Most I've ever seen was 2 dead on impact. If your men are dying while standing in the fire, that isnt the fault of the molotov but your ability. Molotov is easier to dodge than a rifle grenade. Rifle grenade is still a decent ability and is just as effective against infantry as it was in the last game.

Personally I feel that soviets having no reliable AT isnt necessarily an issue but it seems a bit strange to me that the PTRS has such a long aim time (I guess to prevent it being too powerful vs light vehicles) but Panzerfaust appears to aim and fire much faster, while having much better penetration and damage.

How much have you played soviets if I may ask?

Conscripts are generally pretty good this patch, but still require 50 fuel to become effective. Grens start with Panzerfaust and unlock Rifle grenade when they tech up anyway. Using PPSH gives them great close range dps but ruins long and mid range dps.

Germans have to spend 45 FU to get RGs and LMGs so what is the difference here, 5 FU?

Guards require 75 muni to become useful. Their dps aint fantastic without it. They have a long aim time which can make them quite ineffective vs fast targets and they don't do very much damage to tanks compared to Panzerfausts (which seem to have a very fast aiming time compared to PTRS)

Again with the "unit X is useless unit Y munis/fuel/MP is spent first" argument. The schrek PGs that most Soviet player drool over cost 120munis and are strapped to a unit that is continually instawiped by all the Soviet AI flying around. On top of that these weapons drop easy, meaning the Soviets can often force a schrek or two to drop and gain something valuable while Soviets only drop PTRS rifles that are not advisable to crew with the 4-man squads Germans have.

Grens have several advantages over Conscripts especially into late game. Also they have the same manpower cost so how are they cheaper?

Actually Grens are hugely disadvantaged in the late game as their mortality rate goes through the roof with Soviet T4 and off-map call-ins.

Soviet squads still get 2 shot by Tigers and Brumbars and the Panzer 4 still does reasonable damage. They are not immune to armour just because they have 2 extra squad members.

There is a world, perhaps even a dimension of difference between one-shotting and two-shotting. Not even comparable.

I just wanna say: just seeing the title of this thread made me fart at least twice... and then want to poop. Kappa

I just wanna say: just seeing the title of this thread made me fart at least twice... and then want to poop. Kappa

Thats wonderful news.

Let's see...

- Conscripts get AT nades.
- Guards Rifles have the PTRS which while not panzershreks, can still damage soviet armor albeit at a slow rate. Also unlocks Button.
- Irregulars have AT grenades.
- Partisans have Shreks if you get them.


Let's compare this to germans:
- Ostruppen and Grens have panzerfausts.
- Panzer grenadiers have Panzershreks.

That's it. Soviets actually have more infantry squads with AT capacity than the soviets.

So, essentially what players that complain Soviet have no AT options are crying about is them not having access to Panzershreks, which are basically useless currently due to the speed at which panzergrenadiers now die due to their lack of armor.

Guards are joke right now. Which is sad because I really want to use them. Basically guards are like a vanilla gren squad. 4 man long range ai squad. The two ptrs are just cannon fodder waiting to die and drop their gun, which I like then they become 6 man ai sqaud when reinforced.

The ptrs is too short ranged and takes to long to aim. It works great at killing light vehicles and surprisingly enough against stugs and assault guns when playing noobs who rush their units to far ahead. But once you drop your weapons your screwed, you don't get them back.

Germans have to spend 45 FU to get RGs and LMGs so what is the difference here, 5 FU?

Oh I forgot that german players only research t2 for rifle grenades and nothing else, where as all soviet players research at nades for that other thing it gives............

Again with the "unit X is useless unit Y munis/fuel/MP is spent first" argument. The schrek PGs that most Soviet player drool over cost 120munis and are strapped to a unit that is continually instawiped by all the Soviet AI flying around. On top of that these weapons drop easy, meaning the Soviets can often force a schrek or two to drop and gain something valuable while Soviets only drop PTRS rifles that are not advisable to crew with the 4-man squads Germans have

A guard squad without DP's does less dps than a Conscript squad, since they only have 4 mosins not 6. Their AT isnt great especially vs light armour because of the aimtime on the PTRS. Once they have DP's upgraded they have 4 weapons they can drop. I've seen them described as the loot goblin from D3.

Actually Grens are hugely disadvantaged in the late game as their mortality rate goes through the roof with Soviet T4 and off-map call-ins.

Soviet infantry also suffers from German units and call ins in the late game. Panzerwerfer is pretty much on par with the Katuysha now, Brumbars do plenty of damage to infantry as do Tigers. SU-85 does all but nothing to infantry and SU-76 relies on a long cooldown to do damage to infantry. Panther does more damage to infantry than both of those without the CD.

There is a world, perhaps even a dimension of difference between one-shotting and two-shotting. Not even comparable.

There is a a difference, but of course it is comparable. Unless your telling me that all soviet armour 1 shots infantry on a regular basis because its really only the ISU and IS that can do that and it doesnt happen every time.

What happened to ignoring my posts anyway?

I always seem to forget which thread I'm reading on these forums.

Or does it really matter which thread I'm reading?


Oh right, Soviet infantry AT. This has been revisited how many times of the course of this games life? And it's still brought up every time like it's a new thing. We get it, predominantly Soviet players want those shiny panzerschreks or an equivalent- so either kill an up-gunned PZG squad or move on.

A pair of guards can shred through a PIV and it's a beautiful thing. Pair up a DP28 and a ZiS and watch what happens. I'm not saying Guards cant use some tweaking but to act like they're useless is just being hyperbolic. Just seems like a number of people want them to stand in front of a German tank in a field and wreck it.

Germans have to spend 45 FU to get RGs and LMGs so what is the difference here, 5 FU?

Show me a single BO where you never upgrade battlephase 1.

You can't? Then its not a side cost and there difference is 50 fuel, not 5.

Let's see...

- Conscripts get AT nades.
- Guards Rifles have the PTRS which while not panzershreks, can still damage soviet armor albeit at a slow rate. Also unlocks Button.
- Irregulars have AT grenades.
- Partisans have Shreks if you get them.


Let's compare this to germans:
- Ostruppen and Grens have panzerfausts.
- Panzer grenadiers have Panzershreks.

That's it. Soviets actually have more infantry squads with AT capacity than the soviets.

So, essentially what players that complain Soviet have no AT options are crying about is them not having access to Panzershreks, which are basically useless currently due to the speed at which panzergrenadiers now die due to their lack of armor.

Dont forget satchel charges.

Show me a single BO where you never upgrade battlephase 1.

You can't? Then its not a side cost and there difference is 50 fuel, not 5.

That's actually an advantage for the Soviets as they have a lot more choice in whether they pay for AT nades, Molos, both or neither. Germans have to spend the 200MP 45FU no matter what to unlock those abilities/upgrades.

The issue isn't so much cost as it is pacing. However, in CoH cost and pacing are related and intertwined, meaning balance-wise the pacing of molos and AT nades is on par with that of RGs and LMGs.

The fact that Soviets have these side-upgrades that are just for Conscripts means you can effectively skip these upgrades altogether if your strat allows and have a head-start on T3/T4 while Germans do not have this choice with their linear teching.

That's it. Soviets actually have more infantry squads with AT capacity than the soviets.

Jesus wept.

Dont forget satchel charges.

And then he wept again.

I'd like to see any of these German fanboys playing a game when German armour reaches critical mass and there's nothing Soviet armour can do to stop it. I'm sure they'll appreciate how awesome all the Soviet AT weapons are then...