ISU-152

In 2v2, t1+t2 ISU-152 / IS-2 combo is nearly impossible to beat. The nerf to the Panzerwerfer and Panzergrens makes it a pain to take out those weapon teams...

Another guy who agrees on the werfer nerf being too much, good.

I know CoH is not about realizm but..
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-6HVPrFhwUM4/Uv4xaGs8_wI/AAAAAAAACfU/WaoXWR4ZJ6Q/s1600/isu-cats-1.jpg -> #38
This shows direct hit, from ISU with HE-fragmentation shell, on Panther
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The solution could be some ability that switch between HE and AP shell.

if you look close there are allot of shell scars on that front mantle. i would say there was some poof going on there. Turret yea that one provably was a 1 shot, but, how many rounds did it take to hit that? All the Russian armor was horribly inaccurate due to shit optics. those are obviously captured panthers at a test range, not in a battle.

Either both of them are changed or non is. No double standards.

I just beat stc-yippiekiyay and rtn. le wish in 2v2 on minsk. I agree the ISU is pretty strong. If goebbels hadn't gotten elefants or if I didn't get a tiger ace the game would've been different. Without the tiger ace infantry would just rush up to the elefants and at nade/button them. I think the elefant should get a damage buff while fighting isu.

Bong, historically a 152mm HE shell would very likely instakill a Panther regardless of where it struck and Soviet tanks in fact had some of the best optics in the world. 105mm artillery was sometimes used by Western forces lacking proper heavy AT solutions and direct hits on Panthers and Tigers would usually be GG instantly.

Luckily CoH2 isn't trying to be historically accurate.

Bong, historically a 152mm HE shell would very likely instakill a Panther regardless of where it struck and Soviet tanks in fact had some of the best optics in the world. 105mm artillery was sometimes used by Western forces lacking proper heavy AT solutions and direct hits on Panthers and Tigers would usually be GG instantly.

Luckily CoH2 isn't trying to be historically accurate.

soviets did not have good optics sorry you are wrong.

All side's optics were roughly similar, but the German optics had a vastly better method of rangefinding

The differences between Soviet and German optics were less than marginal in practical action.

If you want more realism, play men of war a little.

The ISU-152 could decapitate the turrets of panther tanks with a single hit.

soviets did not have good optics sorry you are wrong.

Quality varied somewhat throughout the war but at worst was "ok" and at best was "fantastic". In 1943 the Americans and British were evaluating soviet tanks in the UK and gave us this quote regarding the T-34 and KV1:

"Consensus: the gun sights are the best in the world. Incomparable to any currently known worldwide or currently developed in America".

Quality varied somewhat throughout the war but at worst was "ok" and at best was "fantastic". In 1943 the Americans and British were evaluating soviet tanks in the UK and gave us this quote regarding the T-34 and KV1:

"Consensus: the gun sights are the best in the world. Incomparable to any currently known worldwide or currently developed in America".

lol i could get quotes from forums to support my argument as well. the russians were using their mg's to calculate the distance, that is shit optics. also all the russian optics were cheap versions of germans patents.

if you look close there are allot of shell scars on that front mantle. i would say there was some poof going on there. Turret yea that one provably was a 1 shot, but, how many rounds did it take to hit that? All the Russian armor was horribly inaccurate due to shit optics. those are obviously captured panthers at a test range, not in a battle.

hahaha lol. So in your books russian tanks couldn't hit anything in a 1200m distance?


german optics were maybe somewhat better, but soviet optics were in no way "abysmal" or "horrible".

Russian optics were pretty good too. Even Americans admitted it.

Quality varied somewhat throughout the war but at worst was "ok" and at best was "fantastic". In 1943 the Americans and British were evaluating soviet tanks in the UK and gave us this quote regarding the T-34 and KV1:

"Consensus: the gun sights are the best in the world. Incomparable to any currently known worldwide or currently developed in America".

What the Americans are saying is not relevant. what the Germans are saying is relevant. According to German tankers and AT crews: t-34 crews fired 3 times slower, had extreme difficulty finding and engaging targets and where inaccurate beyond the 500 meters. considering that in some years the soviets lost 10 k t-34's i find their assessment more accurate.

As for the isu-152. its simply to cost effective for what it is doing. either reduce the AT power of this unit or bump the price up to 300 fuel.

how about increase its manpower cost and its fuel cost? Make it 800 manpower and 290 fuel

how about increase its manpower cost and its fuel cost? Make it 800 manpower and 290 fuel

How about fixing the problem with the unit itself rather than delaying it for a minute and keeping its ridiculous performance?

What the Americans are saying is not relevant. what the Germans are saying is relevant. According to German tankers and AT crews: t-34 crews fired 3 times slower, had extreme difficulty finding and engaging targets and where inaccurate beyond the 500 meters. considering that in some years the soviets lost 10 k t-34's i find their assessment more accurate.

Correction: the German crews that survived...

Anyway, the Americans were under controlled Scientific conditions... the Germans weren't. I'd trust Americans assessments more than German anecdotal accounts which are coloured by fear, exhaustion and paying attention to their own things as well.

Correction: the German crews that survived...

Anyway, the Americans were under controlled Scientific conditions... the Germans weren't. I'd trust Americans assessments more than German anecdotal accounts which are coloured by fear, exhaustion and paying attention to their own things as well.

The statistics back the germans up. excessive kill ratio of 1:9 where not uncommon. Controlled scientific conditions dont appear on the battlefield and is very likely the soviets send their best build t-34 to the states for testing. The real problem for the ami's back then was they where a bunch of newbies when it came to tank warfare.

The problems of svoet tank designed where became apparent during the Korean war as well where the sherman and pershing proved to be superior fighting vehicles then the t-34/85

Wow, German tanks fired 3x faster, the Russians couldn't spot the enemy, had trouble aiming, couldn't engage at long distances, achieved a 1:9 KDR on a regular basis? I can't possibly imagine how the Germans managed to lose the war

The germans didnt lose the war on quality of kit. They lost the war by being surrounded and outnumbered by allies which produced everything on a mass scale that the germans just could not match as their industry was slowly bombed into oblivion.

Everyone knows you can pick pretty much anything from guns, tanks, planes etc and germans had pretty much the best of everything. Obviously that alone does not translate into a win.

How did Vietcong beat USA in Vietnam? Did they have better kit..?

Too bad that most of the German casualties were suffered on the Eastern Front.

I'm abundantly aware of why Germany lost the war. Shit, I spent March going through The Wages of Destruction. But this page of the thread is filled with silliness. The Soviet optics were not terrible. They were not unable to sight targets at combat ranges, nor were they grossly inaccurate. Bong's assertion that an ISU-152 only killed the Panther because it struck its turret is one of the wrongest things I've heard in my life.

As a side note, the Germans didn't really have the best kit in several respects when they were most successful - 1940 and 1941 saw the Allies have more numerous and arguably superior tanks, the British aircraft were more than a match for what the Luftwaffe had, and the German navy was grossly inferior. The German infantry kit wasn't superior, German Arty was within the same ballpark, etc etc. The German armor during Barbarossa got the job done, but not because of superior technology - the T34 was superior to the PzkfwIII and PzkfwIV. We tend to remember the Panther and Tiger tanks but these are not present during the decisive parts of the war. Jet fighters and Assault rifles don't show up until it's basically over.