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ISU-152

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26 Apr 2014, 21:49 PM
#101
avatar of van Voort
Honorary Member Badge

Posts: 3552 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Apr 2014, 21:22 PMChegwin
1. Build arty - well let's start with an old favorite, if it's a way for soviets to deal with Elefant it shouldnt be a problem for Germans to kill ISU with theirs
2. Build Elefant - well this one is obvious, no soviet vehicle can counter Elefant
3. Build halftrack and shreks - put shreks into a halftrack, go at the rear of ISU, unload and kill ISU (halftrack is not meant to survive, its just a transport and a way to block ISU retreat)
4. Use smoke bombs/barrage + some tank - use it for flanking?
5. Pak 43 - well since it still shoots trough objects, it can engage ISU with no risk, it got buffed this patch also

So many options what to choose! But if soviets need to deal with Elefant its pretty much arty and call ins, yup

Anyways did ISU became problem in 1vs1? is it really an obstacle all you bright minds cannot surpass ?


Bombing and strafing also help, it's a lot weaker than the elephant
Neo
26 Apr 2014, 22:08 PM
#102
avatar of Neo

Posts: 471



Pre-patch this unit was considered a joke, and as such rarely seen

Yes/No?


No, we used it in 2v2 all the time and it was a game winner as long as the enemy didn't get an Elephant.


It has been buffed in the latest patch

Yes/No?


Yes, massively.


As a result people are playing it more

Yes/No?


Yes


Therefore people playing Germans will be playing against a buffed unit they are not used to seeing

Yes/No?


They are playing against an OP unit. :)


The previous method for "flanking" no longer works (warp blitz up to it and get behind it)

Yes/No?


The counter to the ISU is the same as it ever was: Elephant. The problem is that now it's not only an infantry killer but a tank killer as well.


This is not anything that the Soviets did not have to deal with before in the Elephant, but is is new for the Germans

Yes/No?


Elephant is also OP, especially because it comes in a doctrine that provides a hard counter to the only real counter the Elephant has (artillery).


Therefore there needs to be a process of adjustment

Yes/No?


Yes, the stats of the ISU need to be adjusted.


26 Apr 2014, 23:31 PM
#103
avatar of VonIvan

Posts: 2487 | Subs: 21

ISU-152 this patch is a killing machine.
27 Apr 2014, 01:52 AM
#104
avatar of OZtheWiZARD

Posts: 1439

Just build a freaking Panther and perform a real flank. If any tank gets behind ISU-152 it's usually a hard time for it. You can circle strafe it with anything. Panther can do it with engine damaged and after recent instalment it's scarier than ever.
If you go for ISU with more than one tank it's usually more than enough. ISU will shoot one round on your tank but so what. Your tanks are clear of its cone of fire and at that point its hopelessly into troubles.
My advice will be probably ignored as usual because it's all about whine in balance section. Someone will probably post another example of bad play as usual at some point.
Too many 3v3 bad players on this forum.
Here's another prof why 3v3 will never be balanced. No other mode allows you to field multiple ISUs assuming both players skill is the same. Next time get multiple Elephants or Pak 43. It's still much harder for Soviet player to kill Elephant than it is for a German player to kill ISU-152 but majority of 3v3 heroes don't even know this as they play one faction only.
27 Apr 2014, 01:59 AM
#105
avatar of Ruhani

Posts: 11

Lol @ half the people in this thread suggesting a doctrinal counter. If that's your only suggestion, you should probably stay off threads like these.

Best way to counter the ISU-152? Don't give him the means.
27 Apr 2014, 02:34 AM
#106
avatar of FestiveLongJohns
Patrion 15

Posts: 1157 | Subs: 2

Isu 152 should have a switch between HE rounds and High penetration rounds. And a timer for changing it.

It can't be an ANTI ALL unit.


I like this idea, at the moment the ISU seems a little bit too beastly at everything it does atm.
27 Apr 2014, 02:49 AM
#107
avatar of Jinseual

Posts: 598

If you're going to buff its health and rear armor, it can't be this good at AT and AI. It feels way too strong in every respect. I think it needs less penetration, a tad less health, but keep more of the rear armor so one flank doesn't mean GG. If it's going to be this good at anti-inf, it should perhaps be more likely to do some kind of critical to tanks that obliterates the crew for a bit rather than wrecking the tank's health (but you could reman or have it automatically remanned after some period, as that's in keeping with what it did to tanks in real life). I think an ISU-152 should fall to a PZIV/Tiger flank given the costs, but right now with a T34 in support, or basically any other AT unit, that's not going to happen with even a modicum of micro, especially if you use mark target.


Are you mad? that's going to make it even more OP. If you want to make it realistic how bout when a tank fires at the isu152s rear the isu152 completely explodes, that would be realistic but it's not something people want in the game. One flank should mean gg. The Isu152 has a very long range so getting up close to it is pretty difficult when there is an army defending it.
27 Apr 2014, 04:22 AM
#108
avatar of Abdul

Posts: 896

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Apr 2014, 15:48 PMKatitof

You're going in circles here chasing your own tail.
I have no idea what point you're trying to make.
People complained about elephant since forever and it was buffed even harder.
Now ISU is on its level of impact and it suddenly is a problem?


Nothing wrong with his post, and its very clear and reasonable. The ISU is not on the level of elephant, its much better now because its a threat to everything: tanks, infantry, at guns.
27 Apr 2014, 04:26 AM
#109
avatar of Abdul

Posts: 896

So if I understand correctly:

The unit that next to nobody built before because it was basically considered a way to throw the game is now good so it gets used

And nobody knows how to play against it because they've never seen it before

So it must be OP



Riiiight


I used the ISU152 all the time before the patch and it was a pleasant challenge to use. You had to have a real combined force to be able to use it effectively, but not anymore. Now you can spam it with impunity because its so good against everything.
27 Apr 2014, 05:02 AM
#110
avatar of DocRockwell

Posts: 60

Patch has been out for what, 3 days?

If you're convinced its unstoppable without the slightest attempt at trying to find working tactics, then switch to Soviets, enjoy an invincible win streak until its patched and enjoy the free ride.

If said win streak doesn't materialize, please do report back.
27 Apr 2014, 05:54 AM
#111
avatar of ThoseDeafMutes

Posts: 1026

Patch has been out for what, 3 days?

If you're convinced its unstoppable without the slightest attempt at trying to find working tactics, then switch to Soviets, enjoy an invincible win streak until its patched and enjoy the free ride.

If said win streak doesn't materialize, please do report back.


There's no need to be a smartass. This goes for 60% of the people in this thread actually.

No unit is unstoppable, even drastically overpowered ones. Nothing you said couldn't also be said about any other previously imbalanced unit. In fact the overwhelming reactionary tendencies anytime a new unit becomes OP are getting very frustrating. As far as I'm concerned making a "L2P" shitpost should be bannable.
27 Apr 2014, 07:27 AM
#112
avatar of jacko

Posts: 64

The elephant you can play around, you can easily push out with infantry and AT guns without fearing massive squad losses from it (it has clear weaknesses). An ISU-152 stops both infantry and AT guns advancing on it, and it does good damage against vehicles. And it has huge range. I don't see any clear weakness like i do with the Elephant.

Personally I don't like any full health squad wipe mechanics. Infantry is fun to play with, wish they'd stick around even late game.

I always thought it (the ISU) was a bit too good at what it does even before patch, but I figured it was just a L2P issue from my side. It's good to see it discussed.
27 Apr 2014, 08:10 AM
#113
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

I thought both ISU and IS2 got their AI tone down in favour of AT or armor. From being on the other end or using them they feel like before patch.

I wont say it´s overpowered or overperforming for the moment but i wouldnt mind seeing their 1 shot capabilities being toned down if other characteristics are also changed.
27 Apr 2014, 08:47 AM
#114
avatar of DocRockwell

Posts: 60



There's no need to be a smartass. This goes for 60% of the people in this thread actually.

No unit is unstoppable, even drastically overpowered ones. Nothing you said couldn't also be said about any other previously imbalanced unit. In fact the overwhelming reactionary tendencies anytime a new unit becomes OP are getting very frustrating. As far as I'm concerned making a "L2P" shitpost should be bannable.


Actually you're wrong. Tiger Ace was truly unstoppable because it simply wasn't possible to field enough fire power when it hit the field both early and free of cost. Assault grens also were unstoppable for similar reasons. Crying about 'shitposts' in a post that is, in and of itself shit, is kind of ironic. L2P (the P is for Post, in this case).
27 Apr 2014, 09:12 AM
#115
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8



Actually you're wrong. Tiger Ace was truly unstoppable because it simply wasn't possible to field enough fire power when it hit the field both early and free of cost. Assault grens also were unstoppable for similar reasons. Crying about 'shitposts' in a post that is, in and of itself shit, is kind of ironic. L2P (the P is for Post, in this case).


Assault grens actually were very "stoppable", all you had to do was hit retreat on your engi and put up T1 as soon as you've seen them. Single M3 with flamers hardcountered all of them.

Thou it was harder then now, because soviet tiers still were built for a year and a half.

I'd rather say Osttruppen were unstoppable, because you could easily swarm the map with them and rapidly get to T2 to seal the deal.
27 Apr 2014, 09:28 AM
#116
avatar of Abdul

Posts: 896



Actually you're wrong. Tiger Ace was truly unstoppable because it simply wasn't possible to field enough fire power when it hit the field both early and free of cost. Assault grens also were unstoppable for similar reasons. Crying about 'shitposts' in a post that is, in and of itself shit, is kind of ironic. L2P (the P is for Post, in this case).


Assault grenadiers were not stoppable? It sounds you have s*** in your head, lol.
27 Apr 2014, 09:36 AM
#117
avatar of Abdul

Posts: 896

I think many people are underestimating the change to the ISU152, here is a reminder:

old /new
hitpoints 960 /1040 improve
Armor f 200 /310 improve
Armor r 100 /155 improve

cost mp 720 /760
cost fu 260 /same

damage 240 /same
penetration 150 /230 improve
reload 10 /9-11
scatter 13.2 /8.7 improve

As you can see the ISU152 improved in most areas including its scatter which makes it better against infantry.
27 Apr 2014, 10:21 AM
#118
avatar of KyleAkira

Posts: 410

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Apr 2014, 09:36 AMAbdul
I think many people are underestimating the change to the ISU152, here is a reminder:

old /new
hitpoints 960 /1040 improve
Armor f 200 /310 improve
Armor r 100 /155 improve

cost mp 720 /760
cost fu 260 /same

damage 240 /same
penetration 150 /230 improve
reload 10 /9-11
scatter 13.2 /8.7 improve

As you can see the ISU152 improved in most areas including its scatter which makes it better against infantry.


I think that a good easy solution could be adding a switch button that enable High explosive rounds or high penetration rounds. The user will have to decide if he wants AI suport por AT. With that, a combined arms from Germán army will do damage on it and the soviet will need to deffend his tank with mgs por zis guns
27 Apr 2014, 13:20 PM
#119
avatar of ThoseDeafMutes

Posts: 1026

That's one thing you could do, but I'm not sure how much of a penalty that really is overall. It's still the best of both worlds at the flick of a switch. OTOH if you make it like 15s to change between rounds or something it will become a paperweight if you switch during combat. Now, as a German player I'm always happy to see those Bolshevik swinehunds get a nerf, but I think it's probably better to balance it in a more conventional way. It's already enough of a headache getting this stuff right when you're not introducing new mechanics to the game.

I'm pretty confident it will get nerfed at any rate. I'd be happy to see an entire update dedicated to reducing one-shot wipe potential across both factions, to be perfectly honest.
27 Apr 2014, 13:53 PM
#120
avatar of the_onion_man
Patrion 14

Posts: 117

I'd be happy to see an entire update dedicated to reducing one-shot wipe potential across both factions, to be perfectly honest.

QFT
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