Boss units

I really hate the feeling that when a Boss unit enters the field all of a sudden the game stops becoming taking points and turns into, "if I don't kill that Elefant/ISU 152," I lose the game. Simply stupid. I think they should be very nerfed, at least to the point that infantry can approach these units, or just simply remove them. The only boss unit in vCoH was probably the falk88, which had a simple counter, sniper, and airborne. But if these new boss units have ample defense or even some line of sight on the inf approaching them, they're wiped out. Just nerf them a bit, make them AT units, like the flak88 of vCoH, and not so ridiculous against infantry, unless you save up for 3 PV Iv, or 5 T34's, there's no counter to these units, because infantry gets blown up in one shot, forcing instant retreat.

Given that Soviet 'boss units' can get pwned by a trololol PzIV with comedy speed boost, I really don't know what the problem is.

Both of these are 2 most expensive units in game.

One have paper armor, the other space marine ceramite armor.

The one with ceramite armor is unkillable, the other one can be killed by 2 P4s or 1 panther easily and cost effectively.

As one guy on this forum says: if your enemy calls ISU-152 - just laught at him and make some panters. What about Elephant nobody know how to counter it, AT guns and howitzers dies insta fast under stuka bomb spam.

I really hate the feeling that when a Boss unit enters the field all of a sudden the game stops becoming taking points and turns into, "if I don't kill that Elefant/ISU 152," I lose the game. Simply stupid. I think they should be very nerfed, at least to the point that infantry can approach these units, or just simply remove them. The only boss unit in vCoH was probably the falk88, which had a simple counter, sniper, and airborne. But if these new boss units have ample defense or even some line of sight on the inf approaching them, they're wiped out. Just nerf them a bit, make them AT units, like the flak88 of vCoH, and not so ridiculous against infantry, unless you save up for 3 PV Iv, or 5 T34's, there's no counter to these units, because infantry gets blown up in one shot, forcing instant retreat.

Oh, you are struggling with isu-152? It's real easy to kill isu-152.
Buy tiger.
Drive forward.
Or get 1 pz IV, get it to vet 1
drive forward.

The fact is, they exist. I just don't like the idea of these units coming onto the field, and completely changing the game. I liked vCoH for being a battle of attrition, now it just seems like, "save up, call in a boss unit," now you're right back in the game. Seems like a huge step in the wrong direction for this game. I played countless hour of vCoH and you needed to win this game of attrition to be successful, now it's just save your resources to call in a call-in unit to win the game. Simply moronic.

My idea is hugely nerf these units, while reducing the cost, make them better units, compared to what can be built, but don't make them Boss Units. Make the Elefant equivalent to the vCoH Marder but with more health and a bit more punch. I think the fact Relic has made these rediculously expensive units, compared to vCoH, has made them adjust these Boss units to be equivalent to their cost. When really you could simply reduce their cost to that of which is just above comparable units, IE the Elefant being more expensive then the Stug, or and drastically reducing the cost. That way CoH2 isn't about call-ins. Call-ins simply become a better version of what is already available.

Oh, you are struggling with isu-152? It's real easy to kill isu-152.
Buy tiger.
Drive forward.
Or get 1 pz IV, get it to vet 1
drive forward.

Oh, did I say it was specifically an ISU-152? Or are you simply a soviet fanboy?

Oh, did I say it was specifically an ISU-152? Or are you simply a soviet fanboy?

Yes, you said the ISU-152, and then you also mentioned the elephant, but i understood you were talking about the ISU-152 since you were talking about that you can't get near it with infantry. Elephant is worthless againts infantry.

I also find the elephant fine. Ram has 100% chance to work againts the rear of elephant.
What i don't find fine was that the ISU-152 is worse in at than the su-85.

ISU-152 is simply not cutting it. I would like its range to be nerfed to have the range of a stug, have massive damage, massive penetration ,massive armor,but really slow. Basically capable of beating an elephant if it gets in close range ( hey that would fit with the whole soviets are close range idea )

Yes, you said the ISU-152, and then you also mentioned the elephant, but i understood you were talking about the ISU-152 since you were talking about that you can't get near it with infantry. Elephant is worthless againts infantry.

I also find the elephant fine. Ram has 100% chance to work againts the rear of elephant.
What i don't find fine was that the ISU-152 is worse in at than the su-85.

And you don't find either of those issues problematic? Did you play CoH? (genuine question) because there exhisted no boss Unit. Maybe the Flak88 and King Tiger/Pershing, but their power was NO WHERE near the stregnth of these CoH2 units. The flak88 was viewed as the most dead weapon, but now it's the ISU152 and Elefant which are MUCH MUCH more powerful.

Don't you want them out of the game? Don't you want this game to be about strategy, unit preservation, and micro? Does that make sense when unit exist that can wipe a vet 3 squad in one, or for sure, two shots? I think that subtracts from the gameplay.

And you don't find either of those issues problematic? Did you play CoH? (genuine question) because there exhisted no boss Unit. Maybe the Flak88 and King Tiger/Pershing, but their power was NO WHERE near the stregnth of these CoH2 units. The flak88 was viewed as the most dead weapon, but now it's the ISU152 and Elefant which are MUCH MUCH more powerful.

Don't you want them out of the game? Don't you want this game to be about strategy, unit preservation, and micro? Does that make sense when unit exist that can wipe a vet 3 squad in one, or for sure, two shots? I think that subtracts from the gameplay.

Well, beating those units require significant micro, and keeping them alive also requires micro.
Countless times i have lost these units just because of a slight mistake. ISU-152 is the most unforgiving tank in the game. One single mistake = dead.
It's very hard to do an assault with them, and because you were saving up for them, it means that you probaly lost some map control while saving up for these units, but as i said, assaulting with them is really risky.

If you see an isu-152, retreat with your infantry. Same with elephant, see elephant. Dont drive with your tanks there. For one elephant you can get 3 t-34/76s. Elephant can only be in one place at a time,t-34/s can easily reposition. Ele in center? t-34s on flanks. Ele on right? T-34s on left. With isu-152 i don't even know what your talking about, i guess you just got mad because your pg + panzershreck blob got destroyed or something.
Think of it this way, why can 3 t-34/76s completely change the course of the game, while an isu costs the same as those t-34/76s , yet you complain that it can change the course of the game.


Oh, and this is coh 2, not coh 1, i guess you just complaining that this game is not coh 1, go play coh 1, this is not coh 1, this is coh 2.
IN coh 1 "super units" did not cost fuel. That's why they weren't so strong, because they DIDINT cost fuel and you could still back up your "super units" with some "not super units".
However, in the case of an isu-152, you will at best, have 1 t-34/76 supporting it.

Well, beating those units require significant micro, and keeping them alive also requires micro.
Countless times i have lost these units just because of a slight mistake. ISU-152 is the most unforgiving tank in the game. One single mistake = dead.
It's very hard to do an assault with them, and because you were saving up for them, it means that you probaly lost some map control while saving up for these units, but as i said, assaulting with them is really risky.

If you see an isu-152, retreat with your infantry. Same with elephant, see elephant. Dont drive with your tanks there. For one elephant you can get 3 t-34/76s. Elephant can only be in one place at a time,t-34/s can easily reposition. Ele in center? t-34s on flanks. Ele on right? T-34s on left. With isu-152 i don't even know what your talking about, i guess you just got mad because your pg + panzershreck blob got destroyed or something.
Think of it this way, why can 3 t-34/76s completely change the course of the game, while an isu costs the same as those t-34/76s , yet you complain that it can change the course of the game.


Oh, and this is coh 2, not coh 1, i guess you just complaining that this game is not coh 1, go play coh 1, this is not coh 1, this is coh 2

I guess you are just stuck on being a Soviet Fanboy, because no where did I specify which faction I played the most. I don't know why you decided to jump in this conversation.

I used to love the days of preserving tanks, having them vet and then using them in an assault. I don't think the ability to call in a late-game unit, that can save your life/game, is a good idea. Just receed your troops unil you have enough resource then call in the late game unit to win the game. Isu-152 and Elefant. They make no sense. They serve no strategic purpose other then being completely immobile, (why are the in the game) ultimate insta kill inf, and tank destroyers, (why are they in the game)

I guess you are just stuck on being a Soviet Fanboy, because no where did I specify which faction I played the most. I don't know why you decided to jump in this conversation.

I used to love the days of preserving tanks, having them vet and then using them in an assault. I don't think the ability to call in a late-game unit, that can save your life/game, is a good idea. Just receed your troops unil you have enough resource then call in the late game unit to win the game. Isu-152 and Elefant. They make no sense. They serve no strategic purpose other then being completely immobile, (why are the in the game) ultimate insta kill inf, and tank destroyers, (why are they in the game)

This is not vCoH. You first complained about squads getting wiped, meaning you were talking about the ISU-152. It is a glass cannon which germans have simple counters in t3/t4. Just leave. You are pitiful, complaining about something that has a simple counter, and calling people fanboys when they dont want to nerf a glass cannon unit.

Cant approach with infantry to an Elefant? wtf? lololo

Cant approach with infantry to an Elefant? wtf? lololo

And what next? Look at it until it explodes?

I completely agree with this thread. I very much dislike the "boss unit" feel to most of the heavies. The tiger is the only one that seems sane because it's the only one that doesn't omgwtfpwn things like the is2 (infantry), isu152 (infantry), or elefant (armor). I would like to see all of them toned down or reworked somehow.

The ISU152 and Elefant aren't even fun to play -with- because of how unspeakably awkward they are to control.

This has absolutely nothing to do with balance, just feel of the game and how they work into strategies.

EDIT: To clarify, I wish they were less powerful and cheaper. I would like them to supplement an army, not dictate it.

ISU sucks unless its surrounded by a wall of IS2s and guards.

and Elefant ive found goes down extremely quick with a well coordinated mark vehicle teamwork attack,like 4 t34-85s from different angles and an IS2 head on with mark vehicle after you snuck them around the map or something like that....you just gotta do something cheeky and ballsy with teamwork in order to knock it out.

I enjoy it. it makes me feel like im playing the VCoh Tiger hunting mission

If only flanking is more rewarding in this game. Oh wait, one AT nade, destroyed engine bye bye flanking failed. I found the Isu152 to be a pretty situational weapon. It's very good at killing both infantry and tanks. I don't know why people think Isu152 sucks, maybe nobody knows how to use it and put it in the front lines, even though it has a super long range and deserves to be in the back?

ISU152 is only fucked when it's under attack but since it has such a long range it can attack Panthers and Tigers before it even gets harmed. Don't expect the isu152 to be good at close range maps like Semois the thing completely denies everything in a open field aside from the Elefant.

Oh man, I love the ISU 152. Especially on maps like Semoskiy, where it can sit back and cover the middle VP and wiping squads like there is no tomorrow. It crew shocks tanks quite often, and together with mark vehicle it's a beast! Lay some mines, get some guards and AT guns to protect it and it's easy going, another win and usable on most maps in 2vs2. I guess one could argue about the price, but I am fine with it. I really don't understand all the hate towards this piece of awesomeness...

The only boss unit have issues now, are IS2, KV8 and TA.

Those shit just kill everything too fast.


Elefant is a joke, KV2 is a joke, ISU is worthless unless in team games.
Tiger is completely fine that just being a stronger but slower P4, extremely easy to keep it at bay.

HAHA, you think these are boss tanks. Just wait until Obercommand comes out with king tigers and jagdtigers.