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Rifle Grenades

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12 Apr 2014, 14:13 PM
#161
avatar of Jaigen

Posts: 1130

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Apr 2014, 16:45 PMNeo
Nobody is talking about removing rifle grenades. We're discussing how to make them balanced.

The suggestions are:

1. Prevent them from being fired while suppressed.
2. Reduce range and/or accuracy of rifle grenades if the unit firing them is suppressed.


Fair enough but it should also apply to the molotovs then. in fact it should apply to all grenades.
Neo
12 Apr 2014, 14:24 PM
#162
avatar of Neo

Posts: 471

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Apr 2014, 14:13 PMJaigen


Fair enough but it should also apply to the molotovs then. in fact it should apply to all grenades.


I don't agree.

No other grenade has the massive range of rifle grenades which makes them a much more potent counter to MGs than any other grenade.
12 Apr 2014, 14:24 PM
#163
avatar of NEVEC

Posts: 708 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Apr 2014, 14:13 PMJaigen


Fair enough but it should also apply to the molotovs then. in fact it should apply to all grenades.


Rifle nade AoE was buffed. Molotov wasn't changed.
And anyway rifle nade still be better than molotov.
For current stats of them both their cost should be 10 and 35.
12 Apr 2014, 15:59 PM
#164
avatar of nikolai262
Donator 22

Posts: 83

I would be glad to see riflenades removed if the Maxim would have less than 6 squad members and not change positions so quickly. The riflenade is to compensate for the larger Soviet Squad sizes which the squad can quickly retreat once it's riflenaded.

The same can be said for the mg42 once they get moltoved it's wise to retreat otherwise rng will do it's job. The effectiveness of grenades into Machinegun removal depends on your luck. In a riflenade to maxim situation the effectiveness of the grenade depends on whether or not the other squad members bunch up. Squad members bunching up cannot be controlled the player therefore it requires a bit of luck for the German player to kill most of the mg crew. As for Moltovs and MG42, this relys on rng because sometimes 3 full hp squad members just get wiped instantly or they take little to no damage at all.


The chance of 3 squad members been wiped instantly is near 0. Rnades always wipe models and still hurt the other ones alot so that another nade or small arms will see them off.

The maxim has quick setup since its arc is so small.

Not sure but with the range increase on vet can the Rnade out range the maxim?
13 Apr 2014, 00:31 AM
#165
avatar of OZtheWiZARD

Posts: 1439



The chance of 3 squad members been wiped instantly is near 0. Rnades always wipe models and still hurt the other ones alot so that another nade or small arms will see them off.

The maxim has quick setup since its arc is so small.

Not sure but with the range increase on vet can the Rnade out range the maxim?


What's the difference you can still rifle nade a Maxim even if suppressed.
13 Apr 2014, 14:44 PM
#166
avatar of Jaigen

Posts: 1130

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Apr 2014, 14:24 PMNEVEC


Rifle nade AoE was buffed. Molotov wasn't changed.
And anyway rifle nade still be better than molotov.
For current stats of them both their cost should be 10 and 35.


Riflenade aoe wasnt buffed. it is now simply easy to see where the grenade will land and how many men will be affected by it, and the rest is nonsense, molotovs excel at cc rifles at long range that doesnt make the other better or worse, In fact comparing them is retarded.
13 Apr 2014, 14:49 PM
#167
avatar of Jaigen

Posts: 1130

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Apr 2014, 14:24 PMNeo


I don't agree.

No other grenade has the massive range of rifle grenades which makes them a much more potent counter to MGs than any other grenade.


You continually dare to compare the maxim to the mg42. stop doing that because every single issue you posted so far is not valid. the riflenade is balanced and you need to give better reasons why the riflenade is not aloud to counter the maxim.
13 Apr 2014, 14:58 PM
#168
avatar of Puppetmaster
Patrion 310

Posts: 871

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Apr 2014, 14:49 PMJaigen


You continually dare to compare the maxim to the mg42. stop doing that because every single issue you posted so far is not valid. the riflenade is balanced and you need to give better reasons why the riflenade is not aloud to counter the maxim.


Because a molotov does not counter the mg42 in the same way. Can you post your player card please.
13 Apr 2014, 15:13 PM
#169
avatar of pigsoup
Patrion 14

Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Apr 2014, 14:49 PMJaigen


You continually dare to compare the maxim to the mg42. stop doing that because every single issue you posted so far is not valid. the riflenade is balanced and you need to give better reasons why the riflenade is not aloud to counter the maxim.


yeah Neo. how dare you compare maxim and mg 42 together? they are both HMG weapons teams, they are both supposed to counter infantry units... how dare you.
Neo
13 Apr 2014, 15:54 PM
#170
avatar of Neo

Posts: 471

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Apr 2014, 15:13 PMpigsoup


yeah Neo. how dare you compare maxim and mg 42 together? they are both HMG weapons teams, they are both supposed to counter infantry units... how dare you.


Haha, exactly.

I laughed so hard when I read his post I decided not to bother to reply. He's either trolling or has no clue about this game...
13 Apr 2014, 16:06 PM
#171
avatar of WiFiDi
Honorary Member Badge

Posts: 3293

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Apr 2014, 15:54 PMNeo


I laughed so hard when I read that post I decided not to bother to reply. He's either trolling or has no clue about this game...


Neo
13 Apr 2014, 16:13 PM
#172
avatar of Neo

Posts: 471

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Apr 2014, 16:06 PMWiFiDi




I understood pigsoup's sarcasm. I was referring to the post his sarcasm was referring to :)
13 Apr 2014, 16:23 PM
#173
avatar of WiFiDi
Honorary Member Badge

Posts: 3293

ah i get it now :)
13 Apr 2014, 16:39 PM
#174
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Apr 2014, 14:44 PMJaigen


Riflenade aoe wasnt buffed. it is now simply easy to see where the grenade will land and how many men will be affected by it, and the rest is nonsense, molotovs excel at cc rifles at long range that doesnt make the other better or worse, In fact comparing them is retarded.


If in game version A the ability have a chance to miss and in game version B the same ability no longer can miss and will hit 100% of the time then its by a definition called a buff.

This is exactly what happened to rifle nade and every other nade, they were buffed.
Simple concept really, but I can see how you might have problems grasping at it.

Oh and they both have one role in common-countering HMGs, yet one greatly excels over the other that its not even funny. Obviously you will deny everything, as long as its the german counterpart that excels, which it is, because it grants instant effect after which HMG will die or have to return to base, without taking any losses or risks as opposed to molotoving cons.
13 Apr 2014, 20:38 PM
#175
avatar of Jaigen

Posts: 1130

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Apr 2014, 15:54 PMNeo


Haha, exactly.

I laughed so hard when I read his post I decided not to bother to reply. He's either trolling or has no clue about this game...


i am trolling. you however have no clue how to balance this game. suffice to say you need to come up with better arguments why the riflenade should cease to be a counter to the maxims except that maxims should not be countered from the front while conveniently forgetting that the maxim in the hands of person with a tiny bit of micro you always be facing it from the front.

On a larger view of things .You empower the maxim to point that maxim spam become completely viable again and completely wreck the early game balance.
13 Apr 2014, 22:20 PM
#176
avatar of The_rEd_bEar

Posts: 760

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Apr 2014, 20:38 PMJaigen


i am trolling. you however have no clue how to balance this game. suffice to say you need to come up with better arguments why the riflenade should cease to be a counter to the maxims except that maxims should not be countered from the front while conveniently forgetting that the maxim in the hands of person with a tiny bit of micro you always be facing it from the front.

On a larger view of things .You empower the maxim to point that maxim spam become completely viable again and completely wreck the early game balance.

What game are you playing? Early game balance is already ruined with pio/agren spam.
13 Apr 2014, 22:22 PM
#177
avatar of Omega_Warrior

Posts: 2561


What game are you playing? Early game balance is already ruined with pio/agren spam.
He means early game balance would be ruined for him personally. God forbid he be punished for running into a MG.
Neo
13 Apr 2014, 22:54 PM
#178
avatar of Neo

Posts: 471

He means early game balance would be ruined for him personally. God forbid he be punished for running into a MG.


I don't even understand how the most ardent fanboys would be in favour of such obvious disbalance. Do they not get bored of spamming the same units over and over for easy wins?
14 Apr 2014, 00:59 AM
#179
avatar of pigsoup
Patrion 14

Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Apr 2014, 20:38 PMJaigen


i am trolling. you however have no clue how to balance this game. suffice to say you need to come up with better arguments why the riflenade should cease to be a counter to the maxims except that maxims should not be countered from the front while conveniently forgetting that the maxim in the hands of person with a tiny bit of micro you always be facing it from the front.

On a larger view of things .You empower the maxim to point that maxim spam become completely viable again and completely wreck the early game balance.


even if rifle-nade had molotov range, you'll still be able to rifle-nade maxim from within its cone of fire unless you were running through red cover or got engaged as soon as the grenadiers stepped into the range of maxim. which is the same case for con trying to molotov mg42 from within mg42's cone of fire. however, in these cases, both mg42 and maxim will have time to re-position after 2-3 burst to avoid rifle-nade/molotov for seeing a suppressed unit keep diving deeper into the cone of fire clearly shows the player's intention.

but right now, unless maxim re-position as soon as they see grens, it is going to get rifle-naded which defeats the purpose of maxim.

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Apr 2014, 20:38 PMJaigen


maxim in the hands of person with a tiny bit of micro you always be facing it from the front.


this argument?... 'a decent player will not get himself flanked... a player with a little skill will know how to flank... etc... etc..'

gren in the hands of person with a tiny bit of micro will be able to one-on-one maxim without needing to retreat gren after the engagement.
14 Apr 2014, 08:00 AM
#180
avatar of Jaigen

Posts: 1130

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Apr 2014, 22:54 PMNeo


I don't even understand how the most ardent fanboys would be in favour of such obvious disbalance. Do they not get bored of spamming the same units over and over for easy wins?


You say its an imbalance but i dont agree with. and you give no argument why this is an imbalance safe for that you should not engage maxims from the front forgetting the maxim is not the mg42 and should not behave like the mg42. also you do not understand the long term affects of your balance suggestion. This is one of the worst balance suggestions i have ever seen. no reasons or facts behind the change, no long term balance oversight and heavily tainted by bias. You really need stop doing this neo.


What game are you playing? Early game balance is already ruined with pio/agren spam.


I dont deal with 1 wrong makes another wrong right kind of balance
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