The More I Play Soviets the More I Like It

They feel about right actually. The increased micro requirements have made the game more challenging and serious.

What's not right is that Ostheer generally didn't have their skill cap increased, rather one could say the long-range DPS increases lowered it for the most part. What's difficult with Ostheer remains the same as it ever was, dealing with snipers, beating super Maxim micro, and having squads one-shotted by various stuff. So those frustrations are there, but as far as actually microing your units, it's a big yawn. If you use a lot of cars, that can get a bit fun and micro-y, but other than that it's yawn, move all stuff here, set up in cover, shoot things, faust things if they get in range, wait for some tanks to propel you to victory. It was quite the reverse of the last patch where you had to constantly dodge molotovs, be super careful with MGs (I saw someone use one today - true story!), etc.

So rather than nerfing Germans again, how about we think of some creative ways to increase the Ostheer skill cap?

That is actually how I feel. The game feels great now, however there should be learning curve for Ostheer as well. Then it would be equal. They don't have to ADAPT. With Ger using your old and known game style is enough.

ADAPT®


Post-patched Ostheer is actually quite boring to play with.

Wow...unbelievable. People are actually starting to wake up from "I can't win with soviets anymore" state of mind.

Wow...unbelievable. People are actually starting to wake up from "I can't win with soviets anymore" state of mind.

Well there was also one hotfix?

-EDIT- Also you refused to read the whole messages or just didn't feel like commenting to them?

They feel about right actually. The increased micro requirements have made the game more challenging and serious.

What's not right is that Ostheer generally didn't have their skill cap increased, rather one could say the long-range DPS increases lowered it for the most part.

Totally agree.
It feels really good winning with soviets now.
For germans though... playing with one hand, and it's enough.

I think Relic have to change germans so they have to revolve around the HMG42 to keep soviets at range, until they have the LMG42 or G43, not needing HMG42 support anymore.

For that, imo, Relic should :
1. Reduce the grens short and middle range DPS a little bit, because if a cons squad manages to close the gap full life, it's not sure it will win the fight 1v1 vs a gren squad, and that's wrong imo.
2. Reduce the molotov range while suppressed maybe with a 0.5 multiplier (same for rifle nades btw), because it's just too easy to oorah + molotov a MG42 (and too easy to rifle nade a maxim). Totally remove the molotov while suppressed (and rifle nade) is overkill imo.
3. And maybe pushing the LMG42 to phase 2 or 3. Not sure about that though, maybe the 2 first points are enough, need to be tested. Or instead of 1 and 2, implement 2 and 3 and see how it goes.

And that's it.

I think the problem lies in the design of the soviet faction. They lack some basic units like effective defensive MGs and bunkers, forcing them down a more "spammish" road if they want to maintain any kind of map controll. The germans, on the other hand, are more of a complete faction with effective defensive units.

I love the recent changes, and I rather see the Soviets being buffed defensively and able to utilize combined arms more, than a return to the gameplay that encouraged running straight at your oponent, no matter the cover.

The Soviets are like if PE and US crashed into each other. They're highly mobile with little static defense, but while they have MG's and Tanks, they're not as solid as Ostheer's.

Half my problems with Soviet are that the faction design is severely flawed, imo. They have no vehicular mid-game, so they must hold off with AT Grenades and ZiS guns until they can get Tanks.

And thanks to their faction design, you simply can not give them said vehicles, because their buildings are literally separated by early-game and late-game, there is no middle tier to which you could add a BA-64 or something.

Yep. I agree fully, hence why if you see me playing 90% it is Soviets. It has opened a range of strategic options viable with basic units to get a hold on the game, simply by using infantry skills developed in CoH1. Much more enjoyable for me.

yeah, i feel this way too, the problem with the last patch is that there were 2 powerfull soviets strats (ppsh or snipers clown car). And the rest was kind of shitty. For example, if your opponent goes g43 spam,or lmg 42,and you dont have ppsh,or shocks, you were in a bad spot. Now i feel i can beat grens even upgraded grens as long as i micro my cons.

In short, nerf ost. To which I agree If only by a little, G43s/LMG42s scaling extremely well late game just tearing up any inf you have is my main gripe.

Other than that loving the early-mid game

Glad to hear it. As I've said before I think half of it is getting some balance changes and the other half is soviet players getting used to the new early game.

Let's just hope this becomes a consensus

Wow...unbelievable. People are actually starting to wake up from "I can't win with soviets anymore" state of mind.

But did you read the hole post? I guess not because you only responded to half of it (because it does not suit you?, rethorical question btw)

It still feels to me like Soviets live and die by their Commander choice while it's not nearly as important for Ost. You have to change your entire strat based on which Soviet commander you pick, but I can play an entire game as Ost and delay picking a commander until 8-9 CP (or at all) and feel like I have a reasonable counter to anything that comes out on the other side.

I guess that's just the design of the Soviets but it doesn't feel right.

I dont think the problem is liking the Soviets. I think the problem is balance overall.

Its also a case of "Whats good for the goose is good for the gander". Relic implements a change that forces the Soviets into a Micro or lose situation with thier infantry and yet your Tiger Call in can LOL in front of two Zis guns.

There is no Micro requirement for what has historically been the German advantage. Why (if its acceptable for infantry) can I not micro a T34 well and defeat a Panther or a Tiger?

There are no advantages for the Soviets anymore. You are at a disadvantage with infantry and completley outclassed by AT and Armor.

I mean I too like to play the crappy factions in games for fun. It doesnt make them any less crappy.

simply by using infantry skills developed in CoH1. Much more enjoyable for me.

What specific skills are you talking about? I like how cover is now more important and the gun pacing is faster, but flanking with anything not carrying a PPSH is futile right now. In all the German games I played last night I was easily able to force a retreat on Soviet infantry before they could even move in to proper cover. The only difficult game I had was some guys that had massed Shocks and Penals and a few conscripts and pretty much used the same overwhelming human wave tactic as before. The only difference is the engagements didn't last as long and the grenades were more consistent, which is nice and all, but there is no reason to get in close range early game right now unless to flank an MG42, which almost nobody is using currently anyway.

What's even the point of conscripts if penals just do their job much better. If cons have the bolt action profile they should be good at long range, atleast as good as grens, and suffer at close range.

With all the upgrades grens get for long range later there is really no need for them to have that sort of initial difference.

...but flanking with anything not carrying a PPSH is futile right now. In all the German games I played last night I was easily able to force a retreat on Soviet infantry before they could even move in to proper cover. The only difficult game I had was some guys that had massed Shocks and Penals and a few conscripts and pretty much used the same overwhelming human wave tactic as before. The only difference is the engagements didn't last as long and the grenades were more consistent, which is nice and all, but there is no reason to get in close range early game right now unless to flank an MG42, which almost nobody is using currently anyway.

I don't think this is entirely true. The current system really plays to the true sight strengths, allowing players with better map awareness to exploit gaps. Getting in close with any rifle unit still does considerable damage, not as good as PPSH's, but quite good.

The reason it feels off is because the upgrade options for Ost and Soviets is wacky. For both factions their T1 upgrades make them more polar opposites rather than swapping roles.

For Example:
vCOH
-Volks upgraded to MP40's which changed them from long range to short range
-BAR's upgraded to Rifles changed them from short range only to all ranges

COH2
-Grens bolt action rifles are long range, upgrade to G43 or LMG and its just "longer" range now.
-Cons upgrade to PPSH, short range just became super short range. Molotovs are also super short range. But closing the gap due to high DPS super long range Gren upgrades is near impossible.

In vCOH your upgrades could change the dynamic of how you position yourself in a battle, in COH2 it just makes the long range longer and short range shorter making it more difficult to use.

Solution? Buff con rifles a bit making them win more handily short range and maybe bring the PPSH damage up a little bit for medium range. I'd say also make PPSH a global upgrade but we've beaten that horse quite dead i think.