A couple of post-patch balance issues/suggests

Hi there,

There are a few issues I've found in the games I've played since the patch. Most of these are from 2v2 games but I've played a few 1v1 games as well.

Maxim: I feel this was a weapon that had issues pre-patch that were exaggerated by the patch.

The problem with the Maxim is that the Osteer's basic unit, the grenadier, has a built in counter to it. Whenever a grenadier encounters a Maxim, they can fire a rifle grenade which is almost always in range. The Maxim can't dodge and will almost always lose about 3 squad members prompting a retreat. The grenade changes have made this unit even more vulnerable in this sense and very difficult to use.

Soviet Tech Speed and Osteer Scout Car: The increased cost to Soviet tech structures has had (what I believe to be) an unintended effect on the games balance.

The Soviet's now have to wait 50 fuel longer to get a tier 3 or 4 unit out. The Osteer however, can get out a Scout Car only slightly later than they used to. In the past the Soviet player could get a T70 or SU-76 out fairly soon afterwards, maybe a few minutes, but now the Soviet player has to wait a long time before one of those units comes out, while the Scout Car has since been buffed.

This pressures the Soviet player to try and get AT grenades which further slows their tech and leaves them vulnerable to being out teched. If they don't the Scout Car is likely to take ground for the Osteer reducing the Soviet fuel income anyway. The Osteer player on the other hand gets Panzerfausts for free (in terms of fuel cost).

Osteer Building/Teching Cost Cost: The increase to the Osteer escalation costs was supposed to promote "strategic depth" but I feel that the building cost should be increased and the escalation cost should be left alone to do this. Presumably the cost was increased to promote the idea of skipping specific tiers similar to vCoH's Tier 3 blitz style play. However, given the cost of buildings is very low it's of almost no benefit to skip building any tier you've teched to. If the building cost instead of the escalation cost was increased then it would be viable to fast tech to certain tiers was avoiding others, which I think was the idea (I could be wrong though).

Pioneers: This has already been discussed a lot but I feel they need a slight nerf to their weapons.

Feel free to disagree, agree, and discuss my analysis. I'd like to know what the community thinks about the things I've mentioned above. Keep it civil people.

I don't think Maxim is any more vulnerable to the rifle nade than MG42 is to a molotov. That being said a slight rifle nade munition cost increase could be at hand to prevent early game spam. You will deny yourself some upgrades though so I don't know.

Nothing stopping you from getting a ZiS gun to help you with these light vehicles.

Problem with Pios is how you handle them not the weapon damage they deal. Keep them at distance and you should be fine.

@Stonethecrow01 At all points I agree.
Should changue the cost of phase for the cost of buildings and would avoid many problems.

@OZtheWiZard: The rifle nade has much longer range than the molotov though. Your idea about munitions cost is possibly a good solution, not necessarily nerfing anything but making the player prioritise more.

The ZiS will help deal with light vehicles but in 1v1 that means you can basically never go tier 1 or Scout Cars will obliterate you.

@OZtheWiZard: The rifle nade has much longer range than the molotov though. Your idea about munitions cost is possibly a good solution, not necessarily nerfing anything but making the player prioritise more.

The ZiS will help deal with light vehicles but in 1v1 that means you can basically never go tier 1 or Scout Cars will obliterate you.

Not so sure. They still die pretty easily when caught off guard. AT nade and some small arms fire.
Scout car change was needed as previously there was no point of getting one as it would get destroyed to stronger wind blow.
From my experience a lot of Soviets have to adapt to cover changes first as I didn't meet single opponent who would actually use them correctly. It's all about good old blob + ppsh + rush spam still.

-I always said it: while on supression range of abilities should be reduce on 50% (just a random number). On this way you avoid the crawling lolotov throw (even if you just can pack away and keep shooting) or the long Rnade while supress.

-Solution to light vehicles and some other problems:
Make soviets have an upgrade on HQ for 50 fuel which unlocks T3 n T4 (which them having ol fuel prices). This upgrade also unlocks PTRS upgrade for Penals.

Soviet Tech Speed and Osteer Scout Car: The increased cost to Soviet tech structures has had (what I believe to be) an unintended effect on the games balance.

i think this is entirely intended. delayed teching means both sides need to actually use combined arms. its much harder to spam cons then go for an early t70. now germans actually have time to exploit your lack of units without an early tank showing up.

That's too bad, if this is the effect ... it loses the historical feel. Russians should be weaker but have the man power to make up for it. This doesn't help.

Pacing and Tech Progression
The goal of this change is to slow down the introduction of medium and heavy vehicles within the game and better integrate light vehicles into early combat scenarios. This results in medium and heavy armor being set back by about 2 minutes across the board.


this is taken directly from changelog i believe this is the right direction maybe finally infantry will have a pretty decent role

Pacing and Tech Progression
The goal of this change is to slow down the introduction of medium and heavy vehicles within the game and better integrate light vehicles into early combat scenarios. This results in medium and heavy armor being set back by about 2 minutes across the board.


this is taken directly from changelog i believe this is the right direction maybe finally infantry will have a pretty decent role

I think it is a good idea to push the medium/heavy tanks further into the lategame, but why bring t70 and the halftrack along with them?

German piooner OP now?

Hahahaha!!!!!

Hi there,
Maxim: I feel this was a weapon that had issues pre-patch that were exaggerated by the patch.

The problem with the Maxim is that the Osteer's basic unit, the grenadier, has a built in counter to it. Whenever a grenadier encounters a Maxim, they can fire a rifle grenade which is almost always in range. The Maxim can't dodge and will almost always lose about 3 squad members prompting a retreat. The grenade changes have made this unit even more vulnerable in this sense and very difficult to use.

Cons can oorah into an mg and throw a molotov. The molotov is more effective than a rifle nade because even if the squad doesen't wipe, the MG will still have to pack up and retreat or else they will die in the persistent flames, if a rifle nade doesen't wipe the squad (6 guys, how likely is that?) then he can keep firing away.

Cons can oorah into an mg and throw a molotov. The molotov is more effective than a rifle nade because even if the squad doesen't wipe, the MG will still have to pack up and retreat or else they will die in the persistent flames, if a rifle nade doesen't wipe the squad (6 guys, how likely is that?) then he can keep firing away.

But Soviets are told to stay in cover constantly, how can you run up to an mg and throw a Molotov while in cover. Grens can stay in cover and use rifle nades.

I agree. I would also like to add that this has encouraged defensive play on both sides.

With the increase of Small arms damage leveling out the Soviets advantage of having more men in their support teams.

Increase lethality of Grenades has done so as well. This leaves the Soviets with inferior support teams capability and takes away their survivability or at least greatly reduces it.

Further the increase in light vehicles puts that benefit clearly in Osts favor while the utility of the M3 has been diminished with no real gain. (Removal of the Sniper cheese but nothing given back)

Historically the Soviets have been the offensive force early game while Ost has always had the advantage on Defense.

The Soviets now have no clear offensive advantage. It could even be argued that they are at a disadvantage due to lack of assault style infantry early game.

I feel that soviet support weapons could use a buff overall to compensate for the diminished value of their survivability combined with the forward operating requirement for them to be effective.

There is one thing which i think was overlooked, weapon teams such as mg42 has got mp40s, which means 3guys of mgteam have huge firepower now. that means that a flanking CE, or 4 men conscript cant beat flanked mg42 which is weird. I dunno but i think this "ninjabuff" was not intended.
what do you guys think? did anyone noticed this also ?
thx

No more breast steel now!

And the MP40 is only good at max. 5~6 mt...

@Rhaegal: The idea I outlined would still delay medium and heavy armour, but the cost was placed onto the building rather than the escalation, giving more options when it comes to skipping tiers.

@wooof: It's true you can't do that now, but that doesn't mean the change hasn't created other issues. Unless you go tier 2 and build an AT gun or a doctrine with Guards you will get destroyed by (newly improved) Scout Cars. Unless they decide to drive into range for an AT nade but winning shouldn't be determined by relying on your opponents mistakes.

I'm not necessarily advocating a reversion to the old system, I think there does need to be some sort of balance/adjustment to the current system with regard to the Scout Car. That's just my opinion based on the games I've played.

-I always said it: while on supression range of abilities should be reduce on 50% (just a random number). On this way you avoid the crawling lolotov throw (even if you just can pack away and keep shooting) or the long Rnade while supress.

-Solution to light vehicles and some other problems:
Make soviets have an upgrade on HQ for 50 fuel which unlocks T3 n T4 (which them having ol fuel prices). This upgrade also unlocks PTRS upgrade for Penals.

Good solutions imo. Makes penals a viable option and get rid of the lolotov mg

Cons can oorah into an mg and throw a molotov. The molotov is more effective than a rifle nade because even if the squad doesen't wipe, the MG will still have to pack up and retreat or else they will die in the persistent flames, if a rifle nade doesen't wipe the squad (6 guys, how likely is that?) then he can keep firing away.

I like your win streak

Scout car is 100% totally fine after the patch. I agree T70 could perhaps use a fuel reduction but that's the only thing I would change about vehicles.

Infantry is another story, vanilla Conscripts need a DPS buff, but in general I think the Soviet complaining is waaaay overblown.