German forces

To Rommel: I agree soviets are a little OP because of some weapons they have that are OP. They are not unbeatable tough, not by far. The only difference is that you, as german faction player, need to work more and have a better micro in order to win than they need. That is a reality recognized by manny, rejected and unaccepted by others. This existed also in COH 1 where it was easier to play Americans than PE for instance. It's verry hard to balance such a game like Coh.
Do not justify your nickname. Rommel was not a nazi, he was a werchmacht general later a feldmareschal and a tactical genius obtaining verry much with so little. He was admired even by his enemies so no shame if you admire him as a tactician.

To others: Look guys, looking at Porygon stats everything is so obvious: YOU NEED TO WORK MORE WITH GERMANS in order to reach sometimes a lower place in the german ladder that you would obtain with soviets in the soviet ladder from just a few games played. This is not just his case, just browse the ladders, there are hundreds of examples.

So obvious is the conclusion also: IT IS MORE DIFFICULT TO PLAY WITH GERMAN FACTION. That is why the game feels unbalanced right now, but I don't think that the difference between these factions it's so big, a few intelligent adjustments will set the things right.

wow it was exatly what i wanted to explain , but you did it very well thank you. ( about my nickname)

About replays and watching pro player games , i ever saw games but when i play its always different, that's why i did'nt focus on watching replays. ( i will try to watch replays usually now)

So if i understood your advices , thoose are the key points:

• Have attention on micro units

• promote Paks + Schreks

• Ammo spot ( for schreks and G43)

• Panzer 4 in second time

My difficulties against sov are:


Shocks > smoke VS Mg42
Normal inf > oura + molotov + ppsh VS grenadiers and MG42
Snipers... ( some games they are 6 snipers on the map ...)

They force me to use lot of MP trying to counter thoose units, so i let them a lot of time, areas, ressources to produce tanks...

My difficulties against sov is:


Shocks > smoke VS Mg42
Normal inf > oura + molotov + ppsh VS grenadiers and MG42
Snipers... ( some games they are 6 snipers on the map ...)

They force me to use lot of MP trying to counter thoose units, so i let them a lot of time, areas, ressources to produce tanks...

Shocks have zero anti-vehicle ability. Flame HT destroys them and is great for forward re-enforcing and defense later in the game. Pgrens can also reasonably stand up to shocks, especially once they start to get vet. A sniper can cause a lot of MP drain killing shocks and their vet1 ability is murder on them. I've seen it kill up to 3 men out of a full health shock squad.

Molotovs are easily dodged by all infantry. The AI can be a bit stupid (jumping back into the flames) but looking out for grenade abilities is something players on both sides need to perfect.

PPSH conscripts have the constitution of a sick 6 year old girl. They die quickly to just about any unit that looks their way even at trip vet. They cost the same as grens, so if they're making a lot of cons you can fight them with grens and a couple upgraded grens (either G43 or LMG) will cause a ton of casualties to those cons as they try to rush you.

Don't overlook the mortar. The ost mortar can be a heat seeking missile. Sadly, it's one of the best sniper counters I've seen especially if there are multiple snipers in an area. Most of the time the snipers will get one to two shots off before the mortar hits close enough to outright kill them or cause enough damage to force them off.

If you're playing elite, don't completely skip vetting some units. Vet makes a huge difference and early vet can be a deciding factor. Also Vet 2 or 3 P4's are fantastic and can help delay the need for panthers depending on how the game is going. They also have decent anti-infantry ability.

Also don't be afraid to use MG bunkers. They can be a pain for soviets to deal with early if strategically placed. You can use them to deny a key point, or defensively to help protect an area and some of your set up units like the mortar. Guards in a scout car will make quick work of one if it's left alone, but most other early game units take a while to take one down.

I play 2v2 pretty much exclusively these days so that's where my experience is coming from. 1v1 is a bit different but it sounds like you're playing with a partner anyhow.

I've only played Russian's to this point as I am new to the game. Once I think I've a good handle on the Russian's I plan on switching to the Germans. As a Russian player things I hate are:

MG bunkers ... Molotov's don't take them out you have to flank them or blow them up with support weapons
German players that don't stay still ... sit and burn baby!!
MG gunners that suppress you then get up and move back ... stupid Russian's crawl around on their bellies for a long time .. no Molotov!!! Otherwise you can oorraggg in to suppression, belly crawl up and Molotov ... don't move!!
Ostwind ..... I hate, hate that tank!! Shreds Russians like plucking feathers off a chicken.
German mortars ... just where the hell did that come from!
Troops with shrecks ... what new hell is this ... can you drop one for me please?!
More than one tank ... common .. you know I can't handle double penetration! That's R rated stuff!!

Thank you Hawk,

Your are right Flame HT destroys them , that's my problem i usually do not produce Flamme HT... because i prefere to use the 120 ammo to the Schreks or G43 , maybe i will change my way of playing...

I love playing 3v3 and 4v4 games, so now i don't know if my gameplay is bad or if it's my teamates gameplay , that's why i will post 2 gameplays to show you my games.
And i hope that the problems will be analysed.

For information i don't play with a partner yet.

This is my Stats , you can see the Streaks, its bad , my stats were positive before.

http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561197978963967

I've only played Russian's to this point as I am new to the game. Once I think I've a good handle on the Russian's I plan on switching to the Germans. As a Russian player things I hate are:

MG bunkers ... Molotov's don't take them out you have to flank them or blow them up with support weapons
German players that don't stay still ... sit and burn baby!!
MG gunners that suppress you then get up and move back ... stupid Russian's crawl around on their bellies for a long time .. no Molotov!!! Otherwise you can oorraggg in to suppression, belly crawl up and Molotov ... don't move!!
Ostwind ..... I hate, hate that tank!! Shreds Russians like plucking feathers off a chicken.
German mortars ... just where the hell did that come from!
Troops with shrecks ... what new hell is this ... can you drop one for me please?!
More than one tank ... common .. you know I can't handle double penetration! That's R rated stuff!!

Gary: its very interesting your soviet player point of view about the bunkers and Schreks . It can add a value on my futur games thank you.

Gary: its very interesting your soviet player point of view about the bunkers and Schreks . It can add a value on my futur games thank you.

The game changes pretty drastically in the 3v3 and 4v4 game modes. I think you'll find by reading the forums here that the general thought is balance pretty much goes out the window once you get past 2v2. It also helps a lot if you're playing with the same partner(s) reliably versus constantly playing with random partners. Set teams will always have an advantage.

I think more then anything Soviets are missing important parts of what makes up an army.

Panzer grenadiers which are great AI or AT, grenadiers with effective none doctrinal LMG upgrade and free of charge pfaust/rnade and none doctrinal panthers, brummbars, early flame halftruck and on field reinforcement, elephants, tigers, varied units in each tier that compliment each other greatly, ability to put up tiers reliably. These things mean you are always at disadvantage until you make an advantage with enforced use of doctrine.
You can not fight on equal terms with Germs, due to much less effective troops, pidgeonholing inflexible tiering system, no upgrades for your units and soviet armor not having anywhere near the anti tank power, mobility or armor of german armor(especially considering soviet armor is often more expensive and less effective facing german armor).
The speed, armor, range and durability of Panther mean you cannot fight it on equal ground as well.

I don't feel germs are op, but I do feel like soviets are gimped. If they would've given coh2 soviets the exact same army and doctrines as coh1, the soviets would have everything they need to fight germs on equal terms or advantageously. But they removed some of the best features of allies and left them with gaping holes. Not having globally upgradable PPSH and normal grenades means that LMG grens were so out of control they had to nerf them. Not having rangers or paratroopers means you have to suicide ram P4s spammers and they had to nerf them. Not having infantry AT means elephant and panther abuse got out of control.

And so on and so forth.

See? I can also be blind on strengths of faction and act like they are crippled infants.

Grow up, this is just lame and childish. You are behaving like a real fan boy. Can't take any negative response to "your" faction.

If you match 2 new players that are new to CoH2 and make them face each other. I think the player who choose Russian would win 5 out of 5 times.

Shocks have zero anti-vehicle ability. Flame HT destroys them and is great for forward re-enforcing and defense later in the game. Pgrens can also reasonably stand up to shocks, especially once they start to get vet. A sniper can cause a lot of MP drain killing shocks and their vet1 ability is murder on them. I've seen it kill up to 3 men out of a full health shock squad.

Flamer HT indeed hard countering shocks but I tend to not using Flamer HT to hunt shocks. Because if the Soviet player are decent, he will always having a Zis covering the shocks and using the shocks as the best bait for the flamer HT. If the Zis fire one shot in the HT, it is almost the second shot must come over and doom the HT, unless you pop smoke. Losing a flamer HT early usually means GG. I prefer these safer ways,

- use sniper, if he get more than one shocks get more sniper, they can really bleed them a lot, but I don't recommend using the vet 1 ability because it is too RNG-based, wasting 45 muni just to kill 2 model DO NOT WORTH

- use MG42, but make sure someone else shooting at the shocks, so even they pop smoke, the small arms would still suppressing them, thus rendering them useless

- close air support little strafe can instantly pin down shocks, use PG spraying them

- S-mines, great BOOOOM

Ways I don't recommend

- using PG head on (just bleed your manpower more than him)
- using HT (risk of getting owned by Zis)
- using Grens (they ignore your bullets like Neo )

PPSH conscripts have the constitution of a sick 6 year old girl. They die quickly to just about any unit that looks their way even at trip vet. They cost the same as grens, so if they're making a lot of cons you can fight them with grens and a couple upgraded grens (either G43 or LMG) will cause a ton of casualties to those cons as they try to rush you.

Conscripts are indeed fragile but decent Soviet players must have more than one squad trying to fight one Grens squad, without some vet, even LMG42/G43 stands no chance against those riots. The best way is keeping your upgraded Grens together, fend away the cons, then use PG mob them up by the retreat route
(Another nasty way is planting S-mine on retreat route ensuring squad wipe )

If you're playing elite, don't completely skip vetting some units. Vet makes a huge difference and early vet can be a deciding factor. Also Vet 2 or 3 P4's are fantastic and can help delay the need for panthers depending on how the game is going. They also have decent anti-infantry ability.

Vet up stuff will do, but don't overdone it. Investing a vet 2 or 3 P4 sounds stupid to me, because it would be too expensive, too risky to lose it

Grow up, this is just lame and childish. You are behaving like a real fan boy. Can't take any negative response to "your" faction.

So it's ok for someone to make Germans look like they're complete shit/hard to play/need buffs, but somebody does the exact same thing with Soviets and THAT person is a "fan boy?" Pretty hypocritical. I find it pretty ironic that the people who go around calling people fan boys are the ones most obviously biased towards a certain faction *cough Porygon cough*.

There's nothing wrong with having a preferred faction. However, please try to be more objective when discussing something like balance. If all I see from someone is "soviets so ez to play, so op, nerf them" or "germans are noob faction, so broken", it's hard to take that person seriously...

Sov=easymode

So it's ok for someone to make Germans look like they're complete shit/hard to play/need buffs, but somebody does the exact same thing with Soviets and THAT person is a "fan boy?" Pretty hypocritical. I find it pretty ironic that the people who go around calling people fan boys are the ones most obviously biased towards a certain faction *cough Porygon cough*.

There's nothing wrong with having a preferred faction. However, please try to be more objective when discussing something like balance. If all I see from someone is "soviets so ez to play, so op, nerf them" or "germans are noob faction, so broken", it's hard to take that person seriously...

So I play both faction reaching that high level and saying out my feelings of Soviet being easy to play, Ostheer need much more effort to handling stuff, what's wrong with it hur? That's true for me, I don't care you agree or not.

Ridiculous stuff are being ridiculous, OP stuff are being OP, I was just pointing out they are being ridiculous but never say a fucking single "NERF" word. I play to win anyway.

So I play both faction reaching that level and saying out my feelings of Soviet being easy to play, Ostheer need much more effort to handling stuff, what's wrong with it hur? That's true for me, I don't care you agree or not.

Ridiculous stuff are being ridiculous, OP stuff are being OP, I was just pointing out they are being ridiculous but never say a fucking single "NERF" word. I play to win anyway.

And I can say Germans are easy to play, soviets need much more effort. It doesn't mean it's true.

Both factions play differently and have their strengths and weaknesses. Yeah, things aren't perfectly balanced, but when the same people complain constantly about one faction or another, it's apparent they don't really give a shit about balance, just looking to get their favorite faction a buff for easier wins.

I'll bet everything on your "ridiculous op" list is something OP on the Soviet side, or UP on German side, isn't it?

I think you all need to take a step back and better define your opinions.

Soviets are easy mode (To top 100 players in 1v1, 2v2 maybe)
Germans are hard (Again to top 100 players in 1v1, 2v2 maybe)

Learning curve wise I was able to climb alot higher alot faster with my German play in a short amount of time (until hitting better Soviet Players) and my opinion is to newer and mid level players Germans are easier. I mean its easy to reverse out of a bad tech choice for example.

Mid to high level play and DOCTRINE/TECH PATH SPECIFIC Soviet become easier to play.

3v3 4v4 Opel Cache Panther Attack Move Profit German.

And I can say Germans are easy to play, soviets need much more effort. It doesn't mean it's true.

Both factions play differently and have their strengths and weaknesses. Yeah, things aren't perfectly balanced, but when the same people complain constantly about one faction or another, it's apparent they don't really give a shit about balance, just looking to get their favorite faction a buff for easier wins.

I'll bet everything on your "ridiculous op" list is something OP on the Soviet side, or UP on German side, isn't it?

Nothing in Ostheer except TA and 221 can be consider being OP or ridiculous, considering in vCOH standard. Only unit in Ostheer need to tweak is 221/222, being more squishy than a Schimmwagen

But Soviet?
KV8 / ISU152 instant squad wiping power?
Stupidly forgiving 2 men sniper? Run fast than M3 in danger situation?
Shitty Zis only usable after vetted?
Shitty mortar but becoming pin point squad wiping monster after vetted?
Squad wiping cheap mines?
B4 arty pin point V1 in each minute?
No teching consspaming to super call in units?

WTF dude?

Nothing in Ostheer except TA and 221 can be consider being OP or ridiculous, considering in vCOH standard. Only unit in Ostheer need to tweak is 221/222, being more squishy than a Schimmwagen

But Soviet?
KV8 / ISU152 instant squad wiping power?
Stupidly forgiving 2 men sniper? Run fast than M3 in danger situation?
Shitty Zis only usable after vetted?
Shitty mortar but becoming pin point squad wiping monster after vetted?
Squad wiping cheap mines?
B4 arty pin point V1 in each minute?
No teching consspaming to super call in units?

WTF dude?

In my experience, ISU 152 typically takes out 3/4 members of a squad, though I have seen some wipes. For it's price and downsides though (extremely easy to take down, very low mobility), it needs that kind of firepower to make it worth the purchase. I agree somewhat with the KV-8, but it's tough to alter the unit without making it useless, as it's countered by anything in the german t3/4 arsenal with a cannon on it. I agree with the 2 men sniper, it should be 1 man per squad, with the extra armor. I feel mines are on pretty even terms now between both sides, with soviets having the surprise element on their mines, and germans being able to lock down an entire area with theirs (with S-mines fully capable of squad wipes as well). Scout cars do indeed need some love.

However, what about panthers having no soviet equal? While more expensive than SU-85's, the advantages they have are absurd. Mounted MG's, much faster, insane health and armor... IMO, if they're going to be an AT tank, they really shouldn't be as good against infantry as they are. Get multiple panthers and there is little the soviets can do against that. I suppose that's my biggest gripe with Germans atm, aside from some support team discrepancies that either side could use to be adjusted.

Combined arms solves everything? (Except against a sov player who uses the ass of a tactic of snipers, and just makes counters to everything you field.) Ex. (Phases of counterattacks) Phase 1: Mg's and grenadiers < sov sniper. Phase 2: Pzgrenadier, mortar, upgraded 251 and 222 < Guards and allied conscript ppsh spam. Phase 3: Ostwind/panther, brummbar, pzgren spam with reinforce assistance < Uber Ppsh/shock and guard spam with dp's, T34/85's. Inevitable german defeat because the soviet became too difficult to counter at this point... because im pretty sure the soviet snipers coming in pairs is what stopped the german advance and paved the way for tanks. (Counter sniping became trivial with ppsh spam everywhere)

Nothing in Ostheer except TA and 221 can be consider being OP or ridiculous, considering in vCOH standard. Only unit in Ostheer need to tweak is 221/222, being more squishy than a Schimmwagen

The most absurd thing in the German arsenal is the 50kg Stuka Dive Bomb. It's like a V1, except the V1 gave a warning when it was called in, not when it was about to drop. It's 40 ammo cheaper than the soviet bomb strike, yet it's far superior. To make matters worse, it also comes in a doctrine with redistribute resources.

Combined arms solves everything? (Except against a sov player who uses the ass of a tactic of snipers, and just makes counters to everything you field.) Ex. (Phases of counterattacks) Phase 1: Mg's and grenadiers < sov sniper. Phase 2: Pzgrenadier, mortar, upgraded 251 and 222 < Guards and allied conscript ppsh spam. Phase 3: Ostwind/panther, brummbar, pzgren spam with reinforce assistance < Uber Ppsh/shock and guard spam with dp's, T34/85's. Inevitable german defeat because the soviet became too difficult to counter at this point... because im pretty sure the soviet snipers coming in pairs is what stopped the german advance and paved the way for tanks. (Counter sniping became trivial with ppsh spam everywhere)

I know your not saying one trick pony nade platform Guards are anywhere near overpowered. DP LMG 9/10 times isnt putting out all of its damage because they are in pairs and like to do jumping jacks and reaim. LMG42 is sooooo damn much better its absurd...

I know your not saying one trick pony nade platform Guards are anywhere near overpowered. DP LMG 9/10 times isnt putting out all of its damage because they are in pairs and like to do jumping jacks and reaim. LMG42 is sooooo damn much better its absurd...

If Pzgrenadiers get hit by a guards' nadr, then they lost the battle. Do not underestimate the guards AI.