How to further improve coh2

Dat strawman. How about you actually read what people are actually saying, hmmm? A molotov, when it connects successfully, very often killing at minimum one german model instantly, ripping 25% of the dps of that unit, usually forcing a retreat. People feel that it would be better if molotovs did more DOT than crits, turning them into tools of area denial.

I have no idea what your second sentence is even saying since it's worded so poorly. A maxim has six men available to man a piece of equipment that can surpress/pin any other infantry, and one rifle nade hardly ever kills enough men for the mg to no longer be useful.

Holy smokes, a 60 muni upgrade makes a unit way more effective against a fresh unupgraged unit, no shit. Also to significantly drop the dps of a ppsh con squad, you need to kill a minimum of 4 models, but other than that, I don't consider cons to be nearly as big of an issue as others here think they are, since their dps has been nerfed already.

Thats kinda the point of molotoves you know? I mean it suppose to kill people right? Its the only thing conscripts have going for them in the ai department, bedsides PPSh's, but those are doctrinal. The point with maxims is the rifle grenades can kill up to 2-3 members if you are lucky and cause the unit ai to go full retard and sit there for 5 seconds and do nothing, a problem that also plagues the mg42. This allows you to easily out flank it and force it off, if it wasn't already forced off the field. If you are really lucky it will out right destroy the maxim completely(the rifle grenade). Grens are better than cons with or with out the 60 muni upgrade i said that, with out factoring molotoves of course. For some reason allowing conscripts to have some equal footing with German infantry and have the ability to scale alittle better in late game is op. Pgrens destroy then easily especially at vet two.

Dat strawman. How about you actually read what people are actually saying, hmmm? A molotov, when it connects successfully, very often killing at minimum one german model instantly, ripping 25% of the dps of that unit, usually forcing a retreat. People feel that it would be better if molotovs did more DOT than crits, turning them into tools of area denial.

I have no idea what your second sentence is even saying since it's worded so poorly. A maxim has six men available to man a piece of equipment that can surpress/pin any other infantry, and one rifle nade hardly ever kills enough men for the mg to no longer be useful.

Holy smokes, a 60 muni upgrade makes a unit way more effective against a fresh unupgraged unit, no shit. Also to significantly drop the dps of a ppsh con squad, you need to kill a minimum of 4 models, but other than that, I don't consider cons to be nearly as big of an issue as others here think they are, since their dps has been nerfed already.

So, lets quickly recap your post:

Soviet mp and fuel upgrade that needs muni to use and is easily dodged is bad, because it might instantly kill one model and might kill more if you happen to be AFK to move out of fire(because not everyone knows that standing in fire=bad).

German muni only upgrade is good, because its an upgrade and should be good.

Don't you see a lil bias here?

And to drop significantly DPS of LMG grens youneed to kill 3 models and still more then 50% of the dps will remain.

Cons and grens are two most balanced units in game, their abilities and upgrades as well except pointless disparity between AT nade and pfaust.

So, lets quickly recap your post:

Soviet mp and fuel upgrade that needs muni to use and is easily dodged is bad, because it might instantly kill one model and might kill more if you happen to be AFK to move out of fire(because not everyone knows that standing in fire=bad).

German muni only upgrade is good, because its an upgrade and should be good.

Don't you see a lil bias here?

And to drop significantly DPS of LMG grens youneed to kill 3 models and still more then 50% of the dps will remain.

Cons and grens are two most balanced units in game, their abilities and upgrades as well except pointless disparity between AT nade and pfaust.

My comparison was between the lmg/g43 with the ppsh, not with the molotov. You're ignoring the fundamental differences between a universal upgrade that relies on crits/rng, and one that doesn't. A costly 60 muni upgrade in an army that is already muni intensive, should have a strong reward to go with that cost. That's not to say that a fuel/manpower universal ability like the molotov shouldn't also be rewarded, but the way it's currently used in the meta is based purely on lucky rng and the weird ability to utterly destroy full health models in small sized squads.

Now if you were to compare the riflenade with the molotov that's a different story, since that's more fair.

Thats kinda the point of molotoves you know? I mean it suppose to kill people right? Its the only thing conscripts have going for them in the ai department, bedsides PPSh's, but those are doctrinal. The point with maxims is the rifle grenades can kill up to 2-3 members if you are lucky and cause the unit ai to go full retard and sit there for 5 seconds and do nothing, a problem that also plagues the mg42. This allows you to easily out flank it and force it off, if it wasn't already forced off the field. If you are really lucky it will out right destroy the maxim completely(the rifle grenade). Grens are better than cons with or with out the 60 muni upgrade i said that, with out factoring molotoves of course. For some reason allowing conscripts to have some equal footing with German infantry and have the ability to scale alittle better in late game is op. Pgrens destroy then easily especially at vet two.

Yes, molotovs should definitely be able to kill models. The problem is that molotovs can quickly(if RNG is on your side)utterly half the unit composition and dps of an already small unit size, even if said unit is at full health. What I, and many others are proposing, is that molotovs should have increased damage over time, meaning the molotovs should kill units if the german player stays withing the flame circle for more than a few seconds. It should primarily be used as area/cover denial, giving cons the advantage in 1v1 fight.

A costly 60 muni upgrade in an army that is already muni intensive, should have a strong reward to go with that cost.

So the LMG/G43 should be powerful because Germans have a lot of upgrades/choices available? Or are we refering to Medic Bunkers here?

A costly 60 muni upgrade in an army that is already muni intensive, should have a strong reward to go with that cost.

Sorry, this is not an argument anymore.
There is plenty of doctrines that allow resource conversion to muni, so you can have as much muni as you can dream about.

You already have 4 extremely different doctrines which can give you additional muni, either steady flow or huge burst of it.

That "muni heavy army" isn't muni starved anymore if you plan of using a lot of muni, you pick a doctrine that can supply you with it endlessly.

And its not like soviets are muni light. Pick any doctrine with guards and you have already a huge muni drain with a single guard squad alone. Pick T2 and muni suddenly drops down with light arty and precision strikes.

Just because a faction is not packed with extremely potent upgrades does not make it less muni heavy as soviets use at the very least 15 muni per single engagement, which quickly adds up.

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Nope, sorry, you can't point to two doctrines that have muni conversion and say, "if you only use these, then you don't have to worry about costs anymore!". That's just absurd. Also, the "the muni heavy army" only really appears once you pick any of the other doctrines you WANT to play with that are MUNI HEAVY, so your argument is even more ridiculous.

You also completely sidestepped or missed my point. LMG grens are fair because that's 60 muni on one squad, the cost needs to equal quality in the meta regardless of the bigger picture, because a player is potentially spending a large pull of resources early game on a single unit expecting it to make a difference.

What the blazing hell does bringing up the fact that Soviets can be muni heavy depending on the type of commander you choose have to with anything that I mentioned? I specifically am talking about the feasibility and purpose of the molotov in conjunction with small skirmishes.

Sorry, this is not an argument anymore.
There is plenty of doctrines that allow resource conversion to muni, so you can have as much muni as you can dream about.

ha thats like telling soviets that they cant complain about conscript upgrades because theres tons of doctrines with ppsh

ha thats like telling soviets that they cant complain about conscript upgrades because theres tons of doctrines with ppsh

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As far as I'm aware, thats exactly what german players answer in general when soviet players bring up that cons have 0 none doctrinal weapon upgrades, so yea..

Unless we're talking double standards where germans say something to soviets, but vice versa it suddenly does not apply.

Still waiting for adequate answer on rear armour and why Germans have MG bunkers and not Soviets...

Reading these post, I have a proposal: please all you people defending molotov and ppsh actual state, have a little game as german against an oponent that will use (as russian) JUST cons with ppsh and molotov, ZIS AT gun, maxim and maybe a couple of SUs. You can use whatever you want as german.

Further, I observed in my 1v1s, that soviet faction players just found the "I win" button, after reading probably more carefull the latest patch notes. There where many posts here about penals, shocks, guards, etc. Soviet faction gamers, it is simpler than that: just spam conscripts and give them ppshs. If you are not completely retarded, you should win.

If you want though to work a little, and do some micro, play with clown car/sniper/guards combo. This should grant you victory also.

Personally, I am sick and tired to see how easy is for soviets in 1v1, and how I have to work to find hundreds of combos and tactics to counter just 2 or 3 troops combo.

I had several games with soviets and it definetly feels more confortable, so i will choose the easy way and transform myself into a soviet exclusive player. LOL.

lets try to avoid name calling it will only derail the thread.

True that. This thread gave some great feedback already, please keep it this way gentlemen.

Another thing I would like to see is more consistency with explosives. Yesterday a Rifle Grenade gibbed my entire full health vet Conscript Squad in one hit (I was dumbfounded). Today a Rifle Grenade failed to kill a single model in an Engineer Squad, only hurt them.

Abilities like this should be more consistent, I hate using the Rifle Grenade knowing I'm just gambling on 1-3 kills, and depending on luck I might get a jackpot (6 kills, extremely rare) or a bust (0 kills, much more common unfortunately).

Another thing I would like to see is more consistency with explosives. Yesterday a Rifle Grenade gibbed my entire full health vet Conscript Squad in one hit (I was dumbfounded). Today a Rifle Grenade failed to kill a single model in an Engineer Squad, only hurt them.

Abilities like this should be more consistent, I hate using the Rifle Grenade knowing I'm just gambling on 1-3 kills, and depending on luck I might get a jackpot (6 kills, extremely rare) or a bust (0 kills, much more common unfortunately).

There is consistency.
Its about AoE and unit spread.
If squad is tight behind the cover, rnade can easily wipe it, if its in the open, spread, the probability is lesser to inflict casualties.

There is consistency.
Its about AoE and unit spread.
If squad is tight behind the cover, rnade can easily wipe it, if its in the open, spread, the probability is lesser to inflict casualties.

Thats not true. That was the case in vCoH. In CoH2 its a dice roll.

Grenades frequently dont kill anyone despite exploding in the exact spot where 5 soldiers are bunched up together.

Thats not true. That was the case in vCoH. In CoH2 its a dice roll.

Grenades frequently dont kill anyone despite exploding in the exact spot where 5 soldiers are bunched up together.

Not my experience.
However rnades don't have any huge AoE.

They are about the power of shock troop firecracker when it comes to AoE, so you need to score a perfect hit with them. This is the price you pay for huge range it have.

How many purely Ost / Sov players are there? I play both and I suspect most of the rest of us do too.