IS2 are you kidding me?
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At least the Soviets are able to do something better than the Germans, considering their brilliance in everything else, infantry vs infantry (ha), Infantry vs Tanks (ha), Tanks vs tanks (ha).
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IS2 did nothing in the map but get its ass handed to it by a Panther and Brummbar. The KV8 did all the heavy lifting. This being a thread about the IS2 and evidently how OP this very expensive AI Panther is.
I am sure with your German colored glasses you can find a better replay showing how OP the IS2 is. That replay is most certainly not it.
I have seen good use of the IS2 and I have used it alot. I stand by my opinion that there are tools better suited to do what the IS2 does and cheaper.
For example a KV8 backing up an SU85 will do MUCH better than an IS2.
If the IS2 was so damn OP and the best unit out there and this HUGE problem (like the Tiger Ace was) then why isnt it prevelant everywhere? Like PPSH Con Spam? Like Elite Forces?
Because its not OP thats why. Its a decent Generalist tank. That can so some amazing things some times. But over all is too pricey.
IS2 is a scary shock unit. It fights tanks well and completely decimates everything infantry. Its an all in one tank. Tigers suck at killing infantry but has good AT, cons laugh when panthers fire at them but also has good AT. No other unit in the game does what the IS2 does as well as it does. Its definitely not to pricey, you get what you pay for. You manage to hold off germans for long enough with any armor on the field (which is doable with at nades and ZIS spam) you can get that IS2 out and it will rek stuff. There is a reply out there right now with "Combrode Brody vs Noise of Carpet" you should check out.
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ehhh... Decent is the word ill accept.. Nothing more. lol.Well they are certainly better then the P4 at it. I would say that they are good vs infantry and great vs tanks, while the IS2 is great vs infantry and good vs tanks.
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Well they are certainly better then the P4 at it. I would say that they are good vs infantry and great vs tanks, while the IS2 is great vs infantry and good vs tanks.
what makes the is2 only good vs tanks while the tiger is great?
people completely blow the is2s slower RoF out of proportion. its main gun does 26 dps per second, compared to the tigers 30.5. the fact it does 50% more damage per shot almost completely offsets its slower RoF, and is actually an advantage if you take a single shot, then reverse away.
combine that with 170 pen compared to the tigers 154, 325 front armor compared to 300, and 4.5 max speed compared to 3.9, and i would say the is2 is great against tanks as well.
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elchino, could you expand on that a bit? are you manually aiming for the largest concentration of infantry units?
Yeah, specially against AT guns, support weapons in general and retreating squads. Specially with the Brumbear. Since it has so little scatter, you wont hit a retreating squad cause it will hit always behind it. Calculate a bit ahead of the unit, and profit.
When you are hitting support weapons theres a high chance the tank might be targeting a model which is kinda far away from the squad. It´s just better to aim dead center of the support weapon (plus you have increase chance to actually destroy it).
@wooof: you said it, IS2 requires micro in comparison to the Tiger
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what makes the is2 only good vs tanks while the tiger is great?
people completely blow the is2s slower RoF out of proportion. its main gun does 26 dps per second, compared to the tigers 30.5. the fact it does 50% more damage per shot almost completely offsets its slower RoF, and is actually an advantage if you take a single shot, then reverse away.
combine that with 170 pen compared to the tigers 154, 325 front armor compared to 300, and 4.5 max speed compared to 3.9, and i would say the is2 is great against tanks as well.
And its 960 HPs vice 1280 lets not omit that little fact...
It dies to things like the Elephant and Pak 43 just as fast as a KV1, KV8 and even the 800 HP T34/85 (three shots to do more than 800 damage correct me if I am wrong)
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Thanks for answering better then i could. Overall IS-2 has less AT power to fight stronger tanks, which is why I would only really say it's good vs tank, when compared to the Tiger who faces weaker armor with better AT capabilities.
And its 960 HPs vice 1280 lets not omit that little fact...
It dies to things like the Elephant and Pak 43 just as fast as a KV1, KV8 and even the 800 HP T34/85 (three shots to do more than 800 damage correct me if I am wrong)
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what makes the is2 only good vs tanks while the tiger is great?
people completely blow the is2s slower RoF out of proportion. its main gun does 26 dps per second, compared to the tigers 30.5. the fact it does 50% more damage per shot almost completely offsets its slower RoF, and is actually an advantage if you take a single shot, then reverse away.
combine that with 170 pen compared to the tigers 154, 325 front armor compared to 300, and 4.5 max speed compared to 3.9, and i would say the is2 is great against tanks as well.
RoF(more chances at penetrating thick targets) and difference in armor and health of vehicles they both have to go against.
Its rather obvious that Tiger will have easier time against T34 and SU-85(if gets in range) then IS-2 against P4s(especially vet2, which IS-2 can bounce off) and Panthers.
This is why looking at their own stats alone doesn't give the whole picture.
And I'd take extra 320hp over 25armor any day without second though. Tiny RNG survival bonus vs 2 extra shots after all.
All of that doesn't make Tiger WTFPWN armor compared to IS-2, but it gives it enough of an edge to call it better AT then IS-2.
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But you can attack ground with IS-2's to avoid the penetration problem against tigers. The AOE damage deals damage to tigers and the shot will never ping if it hits the ground nearby. Add to that that you can roll in fire, and then roll out and you have an excellent tank.
It does require more micro, and its health is lower, but it offers quite a bit more in return. If you want the IS-2's price reduced you will need to see a drastic reduction in its AOE, because ultimately this unit pays for itself right now by wiping high vet Ost inf late game.
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We've got a KV8 and an ISU152 for that, apparently....
Yes and no. Obviously these are not all present in the same doctrine and function quite a bit differently on the battlefield. Indeed squad wipes are common to late game Soviet armor, but that is where the similarities end in many respects.
I was only stating that for the IS-2 to be cost effective a player must use it to wipe vet 3 squads and effectively reset the clock.
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About ISU-152 I don't know what to do... that beast is a squad wiper. At least with IS-2 you can retreat before he shoots, can't say the same with Isu-152. I know it's very expensive in fuel and mp but I think it should be reworked.
In the overall, tank fights should be reworked. Maybe by limiting the amount of "OP tanks" (Elephant, Isu-152, Kv-2). And by reworking penetration system, armor and damage.
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Is-2 should be balanced like it was a Pershing in Coh1. Good vs inf, good vs tanks. Probably decreasing its AOE damage to avoid squad wiping, and decreasing the fuel cost.
About ISU-152 I don't know what to do... that beast is a squad wiper. At least with IS-2 you can retreat before he shoots, can't say the same with Isu-152. I know it's very expensive in fuel and mp but I think it should be reworked.
In the overall, tank fights should be reworked. Maybe by limiting the amount of "OP tanks" (Elephant, Isu-152, Kv-2). And by reworking penetration system, armor and damage.
Funny you bring this up because I hate to be "That Guy" but the way the ISU152 is modeled in game would be like making an Ostwind act like a T34.
How relic goes from the most heavily armored slow short range and durable Anti Bunker assault gun into a long range and fragile unit is beyond me. Balance and all is fine but I would like to see it a Shorter range juggernaut personally.
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