IS2 are you kidding me?
19 Mar 2014, 18:28 PM
#121
Posts: 2053
I call it a jack of all trades for a hefty price. It is nothing more.
19 Mar 2014, 20:36 PM
#122
Posts: 1042
Is this another aspect of assymetrical balancing? That German units are more easily destroyed by Soviet heavy guns.
At least the Soviets are able to do something better than the Germans, considering their brilliance in everything else, infantry vs infantry (ha), Infantry vs Tanks (ha), Tanks vs tanks (ha).
At least the Soviets are able to do something better than the Germans, considering their brilliance in everything else, infantry vs infantry (ha), Infantry vs Tanks (ha), Tanks vs tanks (ha).
19 Mar 2014, 20:38 PM
#123
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
IS2 + Brumbear, the 2 tanks which benefits the most of ground fire. It´s annoying to keep doing it for everyshot, but it´s worth to do so.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
19 Mar 2014, 21:00 PM
#124
Posts: 1595 | Subs: 2
elchino, could you expand on that a bit? are you manually aiming for the largest concentration of infantry units?
The views and opinions expressed in my posts and topics are solely those of the Napalm. These views and opinions do not necessarily represent those of Relic, the developers, The Angry Bears and/or any/all contributors to this site.
19 Mar 2014, 22:55 PM
#125
Posts: 915
IS2 did nothing in the map but get its ass handed to it by a Panther and Brummbar. The KV8 did all the heavy lifting. This being a thread about the IS2 and evidently how OP this very expensive AI Panther is.
I am sure with your German colored glasses you can find a better replay showing how OP the IS2 is. That replay is most certainly not it.
I have seen good use of the IS2 and I have used it alot. I stand by my opinion that there are tools better suited to do what the IS2 does and cheaper.
For example a KV8 backing up an SU85 will do MUCH better than an IS2.
If the IS2 was so damn OP and the best unit out there and this HUGE problem (like the Tiger Ace was) then why isnt it prevelant everywhere? Like PPSH Con Spam? Like Elite Forces?
Because its not OP thats why. Its a decent Generalist tank. That can so some amazing things some times. But over all is too pricey.
IS2 is a scary shock unit. It fights tanks well and completely decimates everything infantry. Its an all in one tank. Tigers suck at killing infantry but has good AT, cons laugh when panthers fire at them but also has good AT. No other unit in the game does what the IS2 does as well as it does. Its definitely not to pricey, you get what you pay for. You manage to hold off germans for long enough with any armor on the field (which is doable with at nades and ZIS spam) you can get that IS2 out and it will rek stuff. There is a reply out there right now with "Combrode Brody vs Noise of Carpet" you should check out.
19 Mar 2014, 23:04 PM
#126
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
Tigers don't suck at killing infantry. They are actually quite decent at it. The panthers suck against infantry.
19 Mar 2014, 23:07 PM
#127
Posts: 915
ehhh... Decent is the word ill accept.. Nothing more. lol.
20 Mar 2014, 00:21 AM
#128
Posts: 2561
ehhh... Decent is the word ill accept.. Nothing more. lol.Well they are certainly better then the P4 at it. I would say that they are good vs infantry and great vs tanks, while the IS2 is great vs infantry and good vs tanks.
20 Mar 2014, 00:37 AM
#129
Posts: 950 | Subs: 1
Well they are certainly better then the P4 at it. I would say that they are good vs infantry and great vs tanks, while the IS2 is great vs infantry and good vs tanks.
what makes the is2 only good vs tanks while the tiger is great?
people completely blow the is2s slower RoF out of proportion. its main gun does 26 dps per second, compared to the tigers 30.5. the fact it does 50% more damage per shot almost completely offsets its slower RoF, and is actually an advantage if you take a single shot, then reverse away.
combine that with 170 pen compared to the tigers 154, 325 front armor compared to 300, and 4.5 max speed compared to 3.9, and i would say the is2 is great against tanks as well.
20 Mar 2014, 00:51 AM
#130
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
elchino, could you expand on that a bit? are you manually aiming for the largest concentration of infantry units?
Yeah, specially against AT guns, support weapons in general and retreating squads. Specially with the Brumbear. Since it has so little scatter, you wont hit a retreating squad cause it will hit always behind it. Calculate a bit ahead of the unit, and profit.
When you are hitting support weapons theres a high chance the tank might be targeting a model which is kinda far away from the squad. It´s just better to aim dead center of the support weapon (plus you have increase chance to actually destroy it).
@wooof: you said it, IS2 requires micro in comparison to the Tiger
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
20 Mar 2014, 01:01 AM
#131
Posts: 1637
what makes the is2 only good vs tanks while the tiger is great?
people completely blow the is2s slower RoF out of proportion. its main gun does 26 dps per second, compared to the tigers 30.5. the fact it does 50% more damage per shot almost completely offsets its slower RoF, and is actually an advantage if you take a single shot, then reverse away.
combine that with 170 pen compared to the tigers 154, 325 front armor compared to 300, and 4.5 max speed compared to 3.9, and i would say the is2 is great against tanks as well.
And its 960 HPs vice 1280 lets not omit that little fact...
It dies to things like the Elephant and Pak 43 just as fast as a KV1, KV8 and even the 800 HP T34/85 (three shots to do more than 800 damage correct me if I am wrong)
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
20 Mar 2014, 01:14 AM
#132
Posts: 2561
Thanks for answering better then i could. Overall IS-2 has less AT power to fight stronger tanks, which is why I would only really say it's good vs tank, when compared to the Tiger who faces weaker armor with better AT capabilities.
And its 960 HPs vice 1280 lets not omit that little fact...
It dies to things like the Elephant and Pak 43 just as fast as a KV1, KV8 and even the 800 HP T34/85 (three shots to do more than 800 damage correct me if I am wrong)
20 Mar 2014, 10:10 AM
#133
Posts: 1702
is-2 is simply a good tank. nothing more ,nothing less. It's more expensive than the tiger,and that justifies its anti infantry power, while tiger gets more anti tank power.
20 Mar 2014, 10:16 AM
#134
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
what makes the is2 only good vs tanks while the tiger is great?
people completely blow the is2s slower RoF out of proportion. its main gun does 26 dps per second, compared to the tigers 30.5. the fact it does 50% more damage per shot almost completely offsets its slower RoF, and is actually an advantage if you take a single shot, then reverse away.
combine that with 170 pen compared to the tigers 154, 325 front armor compared to 300, and 4.5 max speed compared to 3.9, and i would say the is2 is great against tanks as well.
RoF(more chances at penetrating thick targets) and difference in armor and health of vehicles they both have to go against.
Its rather obvious that Tiger will have easier time against T34 and SU-85(if gets in range) then IS-2 against P4s(especially vet2, which IS-2 can bounce off) and Panthers.
This is why looking at their own stats alone doesn't give the whole picture.
And I'd take extra 320hp over 25armor any day without second though. Tiny RNG survival bonus vs 2 extra shots after all.
All of that doesn't make Tiger WTFPWN armor compared to IS-2, but it gives it enough of an edge to call it better AT then IS-2.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
20 Mar 2014, 14:24 PM
#135
Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1
Yes the tiger can beat the IS2 in a vacuum, because on paper it has better AT.
But you can attack ground with IS-2's to avoid the penetration problem against tigers. The AOE damage deals damage to tigers and the shot will never ping if it hits the ground nearby. Add to that that you can roll in fire, and then roll out and you have an excellent tank.
It does require more micro, and its health is lower, but it offers quite a bit more in return. If you want the IS-2's price reduced you will need to see a drastic reduction in its AOE, because ultimately this unit pays for itself right now by wiping high vet Ost inf late game.
But you can attack ground with IS-2's to avoid the penetration problem against tigers. The AOE damage deals damage to tigers and the shot will never ping if it hits the ground nearby. Add to that that you can roll in fire, and then roll out and you have an excellent tank.
It does require more micro, and its health is lower, but it offers quite a bit more in return. If you want the IS-2's price reduced you will need to see a drastic reduction in its AOE, because ultimately this unit pays for itself right now by wiping high vet Ost inf late game.
20 Mar 2014, 15:21 PM
#136
Posts: 1595 | Subs: 2
We've got a KV8 and an ISU152 for that, apparently....
The views and opinions expressed in my posts and topics are solely those of the Napalm. These views and opinions do not necessarily represent those of Relic, the developers, The Angry Bears and/or any/all contributors to this site.
20 Mar 2014, 16:16 PM
#137
Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1
We've got a KV8 and an ISU152 for that, apparently....
Yes and no. Obviously these are not all present in the same doctrine and function quite a bit differently on the battlefield. Indeed squad wipes are common to late game Soviet armor, but that is where the similarities end in many respects.
I was only stating that for the IS-2 to be cost effective a player must use it to wipe vet 3 squads and effectively reset the clock.
20 Mar 2014, 16:42 PM
#138
Posts: 410
Is-2 should be balanced like it was a Pershing in Coh1. Good vs inf, good vs tanks. Probably decreasing its AOE damage to avoid squad wiping, and decreasing the fuel cost.
About ISU-152 I don't know what to do... that beast is a squad wiper. At least with IS-2 you can retreat before he shoots, can't say the same with Isu-152. I know it's very expensive in fuel and mp but I think it should be reworked.
In the overall, tank fights should be reworked. Maybe by limiting the amount of "OP tanks" (Elephant, Isu-152, Kv-2). And by reworking penetration system, armor and damage.
About ISU-152 I don't know what to do... that beast is a squad wiper. At least with IS-2 you can retreat before he shoots, can't say the same with Isu-152. I know it's very expensive in fuel and mp but I think it should be reworked.
In the overall, tank fights should be reworked. Maybe by limiting the amount of "OP tanks" (Elephant, Isu-152, Kv-2). And by reworking penetration system, armor and damage.
20 Mar 2014, 17:21 PM
#139
Posts: 2053
KV-2 is nowhere close to op. It is hard to keep them alive and it is not that hard to kill them. Once it sets down, it is an immobile target that can easily get killed by anything offmap. If it is on the move, it has a super slow reload and practically anything can outrun its turret traverse. Ill handle the Tigers, Elefants and panthers if i can keep my IS-2. ISU-152 is fairly volatile with no turret and can be outflanked, mainly outdone in a fight with an elefant.
20 Mar 2014, 17:25 PM
#140
Posts: 1637
Is-2 should be balanced like it was a Pershing in Coh1. Good vs inf, good vs tanks. Probably decreasing its AOE damage to avoid squad wiping, and decreasing the fuel cost.
About ISU-152 I don't know what to do... that beast is a squad wiper. At least with IS-2 you can retreat before he shoots, can't say the same with Isu-152. I know it's very expensive in fuel and mp but I think it should be reworked.
In the overall, tank fights should be reworked. Maybe by limiting the amount of "OP tanks" (Elephant, Isu-152, Kv-2). And by reworking penetration system, armor and damage.
Funny you bring this up because I hate to be "That Guy" but the way the ISU152 is modeled in game would be like making an Ostwind act like a T34.
How relic goes from the most heavily armored slow short range and durable Anti Bunker assault gun into a long range and fragile unit is beyond me. Balance and all is fine but I would like to see it a Shorter range juggernaut personally.
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
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