Balance vCoH Trolololo

Nobody actually plays OF in competitive games and nerfing the factions further won't change that. Really, the OF factions need whole new redesigns,...

+1

Small bugfixes which improve the gameplay for thousands of players in every game and not just the "competitive scene", are worthwhile.

But the only people who can be bothered to load up a mod are going to be people playing competitive 1v1 (perhaps 2v2) custom games....

(and although I could send it to Relic sure, they wouldn't implement it because a) why should they trust me and b) they don't want to spend the money)

But the only people who can be bothered to load up a mod are going to be people playing competitive 1v1 (perhaps 2v2) custom games....

(and although I could send it to Relic sure, they wouldn't implement it because a) why should they trust me and b) they don't want to spend the money)

+ i don't like the negative zeal for snipers: the single sniper is too stronk aswell.

How did u fix the misfirethough? u removed wind up and left it out of sync with the animation or ?

Negative zeal for snipers is to discourage sniper death blobs- perhaps more of a 2v2 issue than 1v1 but I feel only good things can come from encouraging people to spread their snipers out rather than just attack move around the map. It also makes it easier to countersnipe your way back into the game if you end up 'down a sniper'.

Misfire fixed by removing the wind up, increasing the reload to compensate, then using eliw00d's custom model and projectile animation (so it looks in sync).

That sniper negative zeal is a very good idea

Negative zeal for snipers is to discourage sniper death blobs- perhaps more of a 2v2 issue than 1v1 but I feel only good things can come from encouraging people to spread their snipers out rather than just attack move around the map. It also makes it easier to countersnipe your way back into the game if you end up 'down a sniper'.
Sure makes sense, but it still doesn't eliminate the true strenght of the sniper; winning the manpower war. I guess it's a change for the better in multiplayer games. But I'm more of a fan of creating counterplay in gameplay; instead of just punishing a player for spamming one unit; When a unit is too strong when spammed it can mean one and / or 2 things (both are related); the individual unit is just too strong (or too cost efficient) OR there is no / too little (efficient) counterplay to the unit.

Also I think with negative zeal US sniper + Airborne doctrine; is even more deadly.


Misfire fixed by removing the wind up, increasing the reload to compensate, then using eliw00d's custom model and projectile animation (so it looks in sync).
kewl, never knew somebody actually designed a fix; makes me wonder why it was never used

Negative Zeal US snuper + Airborne doctrine will not be even more deadly, because the Wehr player will spread out his snipers so it will mean a single recon will be less likely to detect all enemy snipers, if he even has multiple snipers.

For those interested, I've made a mod for CoH1. It's nothing as big as Rocky's list (which I think is good btw, but if you go and implement those all at once it'd be a clusterfuck) but it fixes a few key issues and I've added my own spin on a solution to the 'sniper problem'. If there's still any interest in actually having a playable copy of the mod, let me know and I can make a new thread.

changelog:
- M10 misfire bug fixed
- Stormtrooper exploit fixed
- Strafe no longer multiplies exponentially next to a base HQ
- Snipers now have a negative zeal radius of 20 (same as pioneer antispam) where recived accuracy modified by 1.5x for each additional sniper (20)
- Volksgrenadier reinforcement cost modifier back to 0.5x from 0.4x (24mp)
- King Tiger and Tiger immobilzaion chance from full (green) health by mine explosion removed YES
- OMCG now more reliable, will not give both an MG and a mortar at once, higher odds of extra rifle or M8 (removal or mortar and MG from 'step 3' of the unit pool)
- Stuh damage vs base buildings x0.75
- Pumas no longer do friendly fire

Exactly what the doctor ordered.

However we still have unused units like the M3 halftrack, which is so weak. It should take 3 pak shots to die not 2.

And the snipers just limit them to 1 or 2 according to how much infantry your enemy has. If his going mass elite grens than a 2nd sniper should be unlocked. And get rid of the 50/50 chance of miss. On retreat the sniper should get heroic armor, thus withstanding 2-3 shots sometimes.

Exactly what the doctor ordered.

However we still have unused units like the M3 halftrack, which is so weak. It should take 3 pak shots to die not 2.

And the snipers just limit them to 1 or 2 according to how much infantry your enemy has. If his going mass elite grens than a 2nd sniper should be unlocked. And get rid of the 50/50 chance of miss. On retreat the sniper should get heroic armor, thus withstanding 2-3 shots sometimes.

Nah, I think Tommy's solution is better, negative zeal rather than strange unit caps that somehow end up telling you what your opponent has.

Sure makes sense, but it still doesn't eliminate the true strenght of the sniper; winning the manpower war. I guess it's a change for the better in multiplayer games. But I'm more of a fan of creating counterplay in gameplay; instead of just punishing a player for spamming one unit; When a unit is too strong when spammed it can mean one and / or 2 things (both are related); the individual unit is just too strong (or too cost efficient) OR there is no / too little (efficient) counterplay to the unit.

Also I think with negative zeal US sniper + Airborne doctrine; is even more deadly

I agree it's not a total solution to the power of snipers, but I'm not entirely convinced there is a solution there that wouldn't drastically change the way the unit works. Any unit which can get kills without being killed at an efficient rate is going to be attractive, and it's one of those units where a skill difference between players is really magnified compared to say, rifles and grens which deal more or less constant, predictable damage.

I don't think AB would become more powerful necessarily- certainly it would be a more useful option if the Wher is spamming snipers and blobbing them, but otherwise no, it's basically the same.

However we still have unused units like the M3 halftrack, which is so weak. It should take 3 pak shots to die not 2.

And the snipers just limit them to 1 or 2 according to how much infantry your enemy has. If his going mass elite grens than a 2nd sniper should be unlocked. And get rid of the 50/50 chance of miss. On retreat the sniper should get heroic armor, thus withstanding 2-3 shots sometimes.

M3 could possibly be buffed but you've gotta bear in mind just how freakishly strong the gun actually is when upgraded. If it was as strong as an M8 but with the same gun (and also cheaper to build than an M8) there's a good chance people would pick it almost every time over an M8. It's worth considering indeed, but I think there's quite a fine line to be achieved there.

Arbitrary hardcaps are bad. They limit options = limits strategic depth. I don't want to _stop_ people from building double or triple snipers if that's what they wanna do; but I want to force them to micro harder to use them, or face being more flankable or more easily countersniped.

And there is the problem:
If you add a sniper negative zeal, which increases damage by each additional sniper, you still can´t countersnipe them reliable, as long as the 50% chance miss is still there.
You end up missing, once the usa sniper moves, and get countersniped by his mate.

Maybe also the sniper negative zeal should be not the same for USA and Wehr snipers, since they work different. USA snipers at vet3 are highly mobile and can handle negative zeal more flexible compared to german ones.
According to the veterancy of each factions sniper, the negative zeal should be applied.

Also a timer added would be nice, to show how long you need to wait, until the recloak is fully charged and its safe to shoot.

changelog:
- M10 misfire bug fixed
- Stormtrooper exploit fixed
- Strafe no longer multiplies exponentially next to a base HQ
- Snipers now have a negative zeal radius of 20 (same as pioneer antispam) where recived accuracy modified by 1.5x for each additional sniper (20)
- Volksgrenadier reinforcement cost modifier back to 0.5x from 0.4x (24mp)
- King Tiger and Tiger immobilzaion chance from full (green) health by mine explosion removed YES
- OMCG now more reliable, will not give both an MG and a mortar at once, higher odds of extra rifle or M8 (removal or mortar and MG from 'step 3' of the unit pool)
- Stuh damage vs base buildings x0.75
- Pumas no longer do friendly fire

Great changes. I agree with others that countersnipe should be always at 100% hit chance. No change to retreat though.

I hope you will contiune with this mod and post is somewhere to download. I think that people who still play CoH multiplayer are really in love with this game and will appriciate your effort + you can post this mod on steam community hub and steam forum so people that are not aware of coh2.org will find it easily.

Can someone post/repost 12ocky list? I wonder what he put on it.

The more I think about CoH2, the more I want this "mod" for CoH1 to be implemented..

Sadly it will never happen

Yeah, but we could create a balance mod, future tourneys will be played. This mod will fix the issues most players agree on (like the list, tommy created).
Maybe such a mod could also redesign brits and PE to be more on the competetive line and remove reward units.

Yeah, but we could create a balance mod, future tourneys will be played on. This mod will fix the issues most players agree on (like the list, tommy created).
Maybe such a mod could also redesign brits and PE to be more on the competetive line and remove reward units.

I smell CoH Elite mod. Just like the dow2 mod, it has a lot of success, with tournaments and shit.

I would gladly host a tournament with this mod ^^

Yeah, but we could create a balance mod, future tourneys will be played. This mod will fix the issues most players agree on (like the list, tommy created).
Maybe such a mod could also redesign brits and PE to be more on the competetive line and remove reward units.

I completely agree! Somehow the community have to take action instead of just sitting, complaining and do nothing.

Public release on the mod is currently delayed while I work out some glitches with the game not launching properly, so just hold fire for a bit until I work it out

The best is, that automatch works with such mods too