Balance vCoH Trolololo

What was started as lol thread wound up being very informative.

Semois has always been WM favoured due to it's positioning of houses, choke points and cover.

I'd say it's pretty nice for US since the sight blocks and green cover makes flanks more devastating.

Very interesting discussion.

Yea semois is not WM favored, nor is it US favored. It is the most balanced map in rotation.

Are we going to have a CoH2 balance forum Ami for more 'interesting discussions?'

Are we going to have a CoH2 balance forum Ami for more 'interesting discussions?'

question is who's gonna be the mod? MVGame

I'll mod anything.

Why is no one playing OF factions in SNF?

How are new custom maps for OF ? When it comes to old maps, is there any good brit players who could really beat top wm players like aimstrong, i guess no. Bit suprised that nobody havent used PE ^^

rumour has it symbiosis is gonna use PE

well soviets wont use it too much, since their snipers only camo in cover(i think didnt play alpha) and if wher sniper snipes the 2 man soviet squad second man counter snipes (again i think i read that it is possible somewhere)

soviets snipers cloak in cover, and Wehr cloaks just in cover (even while he moves i think) and uncloak when in red/none cover. I used to play 2 volks 2 snipers in CoH2 and it was sooooo easy....

How are new custom maps for OF ? When it comes to old maps, is there any good brit players who could really beat top wm players like aimstrong, i guess no. Bit suprised that nobody havent used PE ^^

There are not brit players who want to play vs 7pio t2 strat.

You people should the SNF S4 stats some more.. After +- 150 games, vCoH was nearly 50/50. That is on top playlevel.

Say what you want about balance, the numbers don't lie

Seb and I had a running joke as we were creating coh2.org. Y'know how each room has a name? The balance forums would be "The Toilet."

Seb and I had a running joke as we were creating coh2.org. Y'know how each room has a name? The balance forums would be "The Toilet."

epic

Well Toilets are essential for a household and a community , many a serious ilnesses have occured worldwide to verify that statement . Anyway I hope that the surplus of resources allocated to coh2 budget for 2015 go towards vcoh in coh2 engine but even if that is untrue i think that we will see mods of vcoh in coh2 in the future so if that happens balance discussions may be less futile. For what its worth i think mostly skill makes the victor , but i also think some wehr units are a bit undercosted .

Well Toilets are essential for a household and a community

Exactly, it keeps the shit away from the places you don't want it.
Well, most of it, anyway. You'll always find the retarded kid that doesn't understand that nobody wants turds in the kitchen. D:

This analogy is now horribly tortured and I will walk away in shame now.

Exactly, it keeps the shit away from the places you don't want it.
Well, most of it, anyway. You'll always find the retarded kid that doesn't understand that nobody wants turds in the kitchen. D:

This analogy is now horribly tortured and I will walk away in shame now.

Good sir i was hoping one would continue my train of thought however there is one more hidden , funnier , more disgusting joke in my post

Could this be the time for a resurrection of the Quad...

Seb and I had a running joke as we were creating coh2.org. Y'know how each room has a name? The balance forums would be "The Toilet."

Ironically enough, Seb qq'd about balance quite a few times aswell. (Rightfully so, but it's still a 'in yo face moment.')

Top tier players play way more Axis than Allies today, actually this happens some time ago. I don't know why this is, but unfortunately today's US play needs some community boost imo

12ocky proudly presents a 2 year old patch proposal from under the dust. I filtered out to VCoh changes only.
- Sniper meta nerfed, motivating to take other AI paths then snipers.
- Incentives for more teching flexibility, more options overall
- (lategame) Armor play got buffed (More rewarding for teching risks)
- Lower reinforce cost to rifles (flanking is "less riskful", trading damage less painful), straight jeep buff and small grease gun buff should buff USA T1 enough to compete with the already powerful Wehrmacht T1


General changes (or for multiple factions)
* Add a button like Blitzkrieg mod where your units can keep the same position
* Accuracy increment on all hull and coaxial mg's from 1.05x to 1.1x (no worries: will still be useless)
* Fatigue penalty (Heroic Charge, Fire up ..) duration reduced with 5s

US

Doctrinal
* P47 5in Rocket AoE distance L from 6 to 7.5, Medium 4 to 4.5 and Short from 3 to 3.25
* Bombing Run damage vs Stugs increased from 1x to 1.75x (skirted aswell)
* Fix airborne ATG reinforce cost ~35mp
* Airborne squad reinforce cost from 45 to 40 (0.72x to 0.64x)
* Satchel Charge cost from 50m to 45m
* Satchel Charge fuse from 5s to 4.5s
* Supply drop cooldown increasesd from 180s to 210
* Rangers now get a new weapon: Elite M1 Garands; damage increased from 10 to 14 (the rest is the same as original M1)
* Thompsons cost reduced to 80 munitions
* Rangers reinforce cost from 45 to 39 (from 0,7x to 0,65x)
* Rangers veterancy requirements to 8/16/32 from 12/24/44
* Off map combat group can now have M3 Quad in group 3 of the lottery, 30 cal and Mortar removed in group 2 (Only 1 mortar or 1 MG max per off map combat group)
* Howitzer Veterancy:
Vet 1 10% reduction to scatter angle
Vet 2 10 second reduction to cooldown
Vet 3 0.8x Reload 'shells follow up in quicker succession'
* Pershing HVAP (upgun) AoE distance long from 3 to 4, medium from 1.5 to 2.0, Short from 0.5 to 0.75
* Raid now costs 1 CP less
* Calliope price reduced from 650mp to 625mp
* Calliope max damage from 50 to 45, min damage from 30 to 35
* Calliope veterancy: Vet 2 Penetration bonus removed, now Max Scatter 0.9x

Tier0
* Engineer vet requirements lowered to 8/14/26
* Grease gun moving burst from 1x to 1.5x (to match other smgs)
* Demo Charge research time from 60s to 30s
* US MG Nest 30 cal Accuracy vs suppressed targets from 0.5x to 0.75x, Penetration vs suppressed targets from 0.67x to 1.0x
* American Observation post build time set from 50s to 30s
* USA forward rax is now enough to build a supply depot
* USA starting fuel from 15 to 10

Tier1
* American Barracks cost from 160/15 to 160/10
* Jeep 30 cal damage from 5 to 6
* Jeep accuracy increment from 0.975x to 1x
* Jeep max reload from 6s to 6.5s
* Jeep 30 cal priority vs Snipers increased to 115
* Vet 1 Jeep extra bonus: Cooldown 0.85x
* Riflemen reinforce cost from 27 to 24 (from 0.6x to 0.53334x)

Tier2
* WSC cost lowered from 180/15 to 160/10
* American HMG reinforce cost from 0.5x to 0.35x, reinforce time 0.9x
* American Mortar cost from 280mp to 260mp, reinforce cost from 0.5x to 0.3x, reinforce time 0.9x
* American Mortar veterancy requirements from 8/16/32 to 8/14/26
* American Sniper reload from 3s to 4s
* American Sniper upkeep cost from 9.6 to 12

Tier3
* Vet 1 M8 now gets extra bonuses: 1.125x sight range, 1.1x acceleration and deceleration; M3 Halftrack vet 1 gets 1.125x sight range, 1.1x acceleration; Vet 2 T17 gets extra 1.05x acceleration, deceleration and max speed, T17 Vet 3 additional 1.1x penetration bonus
* M8 37mm cannon reload time from 7s to 6s
* M8 37mm damage vs Marder III (Geschutz) armor from 2x to 1.25x
* T17 Penetration from 0.4/0.6/1 to 0.5/0.75/1
* T17 Medium range accuracy from 0.65x to 0.7x
* M3 build time from 40s to 35s
* M3 quad cost from 100m to 80m
* 57mm anti tank gun build time from 67s to 60s
* Give US 57mm ATG some added defensive veterancy bonuses (also for AB version)
Vet 1 Received Damage 0.9x
Vet 2 Max Health 1.1x
Vet 3 Received Accuracy 0.95x

Tier4
* Cost from 350/90 to 300/90
* All US tanks get extra 1.1x acceleration bonus at vet 1,
* Sherman 76mm Reload reduced from 7s to 6s; AoE distance long from 3.3 to 3, medium from 1.5 to 1, short from 0.75 to 0.25
* Sherman M2HB machine gun upgrade cost from 75m to 50m
* Sherman Smoke research cost lower from 150mp25fuel to 75mp25fuel
* Sherman Smoke use munitions cost lowered from 50 to 20
* Sherman Smoke now applies to the Croc Sherman aswell
* Sherman Crocodile health increased from 636hp to 700hp
* Sherman Crocodile ready aim time removed, projectile speed fixed
* Sherman bulldozer cost from 75m to 50m
* Sherman crab mine flail speed penalty from 0.5x to 0.6x
* Sherman crab mine flail cost reduced from 75muni to 50muni
* Hellcat vision range reduced from 46m to 35m
* Hellcat damage bonus from cloaked shot further reduced from 1.5x to 1.2x
* Hellcat 76mm Reload time increased with 0.8s
* Hellcat penetration increased to match M10 penetration
* Hellcat MG upgrade cost from 75m to 50m
* Hellcat model size scaled down (becomes smaller)
* M10 Reload time increased to 5s, M10 wind up removed/lowered, M10 wind up animation fixed ~ (Basically: fix the misfire)

Supply Yard
* Supply yard lvl 1 decreased upkeep amount from 27.5% to 30%
* Supply yard lvl 2 research time from 90s to 50s, price lowered from 200/140 to 150/130

WM:

Doctrinal
* Inspired Assault now applies to Support Weapons
* Inspired Assault Received Accuracy penalty lowered from 1.5x to 1.35x
* FtFL Received Damage modifier increased from 0.7x to 0.8x
* Bunker health with Fortify the perimeter from 1.5x to 1.25x
* Fortify the perimeter cp requirement increased +1, Flak cp requirement -1
* Fortify the perimeter now makes defensive structures build 25% faster
* 88mm Flak 36 health from 325hp to 375hp
* 280mm barrage now has double damage vs all vehicles and tanks (some Brit and PE armored units are not affected.)
* Assault (nades): removed => KCH and Storms now start with normal grenades: When ability is selected Volks, Grens, Storms, KCH gain the ability to throw bundled nades.
* KT 88mm turret speed from 15 to 18
* KT accuracy vs infantry from 0.4x to 0.45x
* KT now costs a straight 1000mp (no more mp penalty)

Tier0
* Wehr OP's build time set from 30s to 20s

Tier1
* MG42 reinforce cost to 25mp (modifier set from 0.5x to 0,3x), Reinforce time 0.9x
* Volksgrenadier MP40 Fire On The Move Accuracy modifier from 0.2x to 0.3x
* Schwimmwagen build time from 40s to 35s
* Motorcycle MG42 Accuracy increment from 0.975x to 1x
* Motorcycle MG42 priority vs Snipers increased to 115
* G43 Sniper rifle reload time from 2s to 4s
* Wehr Sniper upkeep cost increased from 5.376 to 8.064

Tier2
* Panzerschrek damage vs M8 armor from 0.7x to 0.75x
* MG42 Vehicle (is also on Stug) Short range Suppression from 0.012 to 0.009
* Halftrack fuel cost from 20 to 25
* Mortar reinforce cost modifier from 0.5x to 0.36x, reinforce time 0.9x
* Mortar vet1 Rec. Damage (Heavy Cover) 0.75 changed: instead the mortar gets 0,85 received damage overall
* Mortar pack up time reduced from 2.8s to 2.3s
* Mortar cost from 270mp to 250mp
* PaK 38 accuracy vs Greyhound armor from 1x to 1.1x

Tier3
* MP44 Accuracy on the move from 0.75x to 0.67x, Damage from 7 to 8, Accuracy short from 0.9x to 0.8x
* LMG 42 search radius from 3/4/5 to 3/6/9
* Halftrack Flammenwerfer upgrade research time from 45s to 32.5s
* Puma 50mm (upgun) accuracy on the move from 0.5x to 0.75x
* Officer cost from 260mp to 210mp
* Officer arty barrage cost from 150m to 125m
* Stug 75mm damage vs Sherman from 1.5x to 1.35x
* Geschutzwagen 75mm damage vs M3 halftrack from 0.75x to 1x

Tier4
* Tier 4 tech cost from 200/50 to 150/50
* Panzer Command build time from 165s to 140s
* Stuka AoE accuracy increased to 100pct
* Stuka Damage against Howitzers increased from 1.0x to 1.25x, damage vs all infantry types from 0.25x to 0.35x
* Stuka FOW angle multiplier from 3 to 2.5
* KCH capping rate from 1 to 1.25
* Killing a KCH experience points granted lowered from 4 to 3
* Panzer IV and Ostwind acceleration from 1.2 to 1.5
* Ostwind 37mm damage vs Greyhound armor from 0.5x to 0.65x

Veterancy
* Infantry vet 2:
Officer now gets 0.85x Received Damage, 0.9x Received Accuracy and 1.15x sight range bonuses instead of elite armor
* Additional Vehicle veterancy lvl 2:
0.85x reload for Bike, Schwimmm
1.05x accuracy and 0.9x reload for Puma
Pak penetration 1.1x
1.1x acceleration Halftrack
* Additional Vehicle veterancy lvl 3:
0.9x Cooldown modifier for Halftrack
1.1x accuracy for Bike, Schwimm
added Pak sight range 1.125x
* Additional bonuses Vet 2 Tanks:
Panzer IV and Panther get 1.05x max health bonus

(General)
*Possibility (needs testing) : *Suppressed units (activate actions): Accuracy 0.95x
(Since it would make gameplay better it's a good change, but it'd be more a buff to Wehr t1 play, so that's dangerous)


Bugs

Not sure if this is true (need check) but: Heroic armor vs Bars wasn't buffed? (should be 0.78x accuracy) (and vs hmg is?)

Snipers no longer automatically target light vehicles

Tank Traps can be passed by certain vehicles: fix that (but not too much, infantry should still be able to pass)

Fix an issue with Demo charges not being targetable on HQ's

Panther MG42 turret bug ...

Fix a bug that the MG on the M3 can't be manned when researching Quad

M10 misfire bug ... (wind up removed (role of Ready aim time?), fix animation) (or maybe buff the tracking speed to help it come less frequent)

Fix Hellcat Coaxial MG Accuracy bug vs Snipers 65 to 0,65

Retreat bug

Fix a bug where Stormtroopers can move at full speed while cloaked after being reinforced

Fix a bug some HQ's can't be scatchel charged

Fix a bug with HQ's giving more increment accuracy

Fix bug that cause units to pack and unpack mortar repeatedly

Flammenwerfer min and max damage switched => just make it 30 for both

Make it possible to shift click salvage wrecks

LMG (and snipers aswell etc) guy jumps around a lot fixable?

Fix a bug where a Flak under construction doesn't show any health loss when getting shot at

Fix an issue with airborne smoke making units to get stuck (?)

Fix a bug with the pak getting stuck, same with mg

Calliope barrage can now be cancelled while active

Medic stations now show up on mini map (?)

Fix a bug where infantry units keep on repairing repaired scorched points

and more ...



Consider though: I'm not playing COH for quite a while, and it's been even a longer time since I reached top level (When I mostly created it). So I'm not sure if everything is suitable (for current meta). But I think most things still are.

If it comes that there needs to be more life squeezed from CoH, would people consider playing such a balance mod, if it was created?