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russian armor

Elefants

19 Feb 2014, 11:28 AM
#1
avatar of wongtp

Posts: 647

how is this constantly overlooked I have no idea. or maybe 1v1 is where the shizz is at. i know i have been harping on this but seriously, this thing is a major problem.

pathetically, the design decision for this game is asymmetry. germans have powerful tanks, soviets have more than capable assault guns. it would all be fine if everything followed the rule, but nope elefants shits on that and brings in more firepower than germans really need.

what really happens is the elefant, nullifies every single advantage that the soviets have in the anti tank department, good assault guns. coming with 400 frontal armour, 1280hp and 100range. its impregnable by all except the AT gun and su85. however, it shits on su85s so hard, its up to the humble AT gun to do something about it, which is at best, awful against it.

that insane frontal armour makes max pen values unreliable, with less than 50% to pen and that beefy hp forces AT guns to shoot for EXTREME extended periods of time and risk exposure to artillery fire, guaranteed. combo that with 100 range, its will be sited well behind lines, safe from almost everything maybe a stray arty fire or so.

soviets, lacking in AT tanks, cannot rely on flanking or shock and awe tactics like germans with their panzercats and blitzkreig that darts around faster than a cat who accidentally turned on the vacuum cleaner. so attacking its rear armour its ALMOST out of the question. 1 will have to be close to brain dead to expose its rear to assault guns and AT guns.

the is2 is an exception, its capable of flanking and killing an elefant, but it is not invulnerable to the german infantry that will be swarming the elefant, schrecks and pfaust will blow it up quite easy. or a panther to check it nice and good and is2 becomes more or less target practice.

still not convinced? here's the kick. you might argue or try to find an effective counter in the form of 152mm howitzer. but nope, the thing is, the elefant doctrine comes with anti arty abilities too. they have recon runs and that isnt enough? they get a bombing run that 1 shots howitzers. it doesnt take much imagination as to how to blow up a stationary equipment with this 2 abilities.

still arguing with guards and bombing runs? thats unreliable at best, no sane german player will leave elefants unprotected and swarm it with infantry and sneaking a guards squad through probably vetted grens and pgrens is pretty much suicide, not to mention staying stationary for the duration of buttoning.

but then again, this forums is too pro german, so i must prepare myself for the incoming onslaught on my psyche and something about my mother being fucked by a random guy on the net 5thousand miles away.

still better to let my views known than sit back and do nothing. let me know how badly u guys think of me. thanks.
19 Feb 2014, 11:40 AM
#2
avatar of BabaRoga

Posts: 829

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Feb 2014, 11:28 AMwongtp
how is this constantly overlooked I have no idea. or maybe 1v1 is where the shizz is at. i know i have been harping on this but seriously, this thing is a major problem.

pathetically, the design decision for this game is asymmetry. germans have powerful tanks, soviets have more than capable assault guns. it would all be fine if everything followed the rule, but nope elefants shits on that and brings in more firepower than germans really need.

what really happens is the elefant, nullifies every single advantage that the soviets have in the anti tank department, good assault guns. coming with 400 frontal armour, 1280hp and 100range. its impregnable by all except the AT gun and su85. however, it shits on su85s so hard, its up to the humble AT gun to do something about it, which is at best, awful against it.

that insane frontal armour makes max pen values unreliable, with less than 50% to pen and that beefy hp forces AT guns to shoot for EXTREME extended periods of time and risk exposure to artillery fire, guaranteed. combo that with 100 range, its will be sited well behind lines, safe from almost everything maybe a stray arty fire or so.

soviets, lacking in AT tanks, cannot rely on flanking or shock and awe tactics like germans with their panzercats and blitzkreig that darts around faster than a cat who accidentally turned on the vacuum cleaner. so attacking its rear armour its ALMOST out of the question. 1 will have to be close to brain dead to expose its rear to assault guns and AT guns.

the is2 is an exception, its capable of flanking and killing an elefant, but it is not invulnerable to the german infantry that will be swarming the elefant, schrecks and pfaust will blow it up quite easy. or a panther to check it nice and good and is2 becomes more or less target practice.

still not convinced? here's the kick. you might argue or try to find an effective counter in the form of 152mm howitzer. but nope, the thing is, the elefant doctrine comes with anti arty abilities too. they have recon runs and that isnt enough? they get a bombing run that 1 shots howitzers. it doesnt take much imagination as to how to blow up a stationary equipment with this 2 abilities.

still arguing with guards and bombing runs? thats unreliable at best, no sane german player will leave elefants unprotected and swarm it with infantry and sneaking a guards squad through probably vetted grens and pgrens is pretty much suicide, not to mention staying stationary for the duration of buttoning.

but then again, this forums is too pro german, so i must prepare myself for the incoming onslaught on my psyche and something about my mother being fucked by a random guy on the net 5thousand miles away.

still better to let my views known than sit back and do nothing. let me know how badly u guys think of me. thanks.


Man I wish I could tell you something different, but unfortunately Relic has decided that they do now want to try and balance 4v4 games at all because its to hard.
They are hoping that balance issues will be lost in the clutter of players accusing each other of being noob, L2P, etc.
I guess you will just have to get used to it, sorry
19 Feb 2014, 11:48 AM
#3
avatar of akula

Posts: 589

the elefant is a slow moving, slow firing, and somewhat inaccurate tank at range. One of the better tactics in big games is is killing pgs with shrecks using shocks and picking them up, yes easier said than done, but possible.
19 Feb 2014, 11:50 AM
#4
avatar of Aradan

Posts: 1003

Try use mortars and smoke vision of the Elefant, chaaaaarge. :)
Neo
19 Feb 2014, 11:52 AM
#5
avatar of Neo

Posts: 471

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Feb 2014, 11:48 AMakula
One of the better tactics in big games is is killing pgs with shrecks using shocks and picking them up


You didn't just seriously say this, right?

19 Feb 2014, 11:56 AM
#6
avatar of wongtp

Posts: 647

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Feb 2014, 11:50 AMAradan
Try use mortars and smoke vision of the Elefant, chaaaaarge. :)


charge with?
19 Feb 2014, 12:04 PM
#7
avatar of BeltFedWombat
Patrion 14

Posts: 951

Ha ha ha Elefant is so slow I actually demo charged a damaged one using smoke as cover.

I hardly ever see them, and I play a lot of 4 v 4.
19 Feb 2014, 12:07 PM
#8
avatar of Aradan

Posts: 1003

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Feb 2014, 11:56 AMwongtp


charge with?


With T-34/76 + ZiS-3. Or run with cons throw AT + 2x SU-85 from far.
Smoked Elefant dont fire.

In team games it is very hard deal, but you can.
19 Feb 2014, 12:08 PM
#9
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

The Elefant is the slowest vehicle in the game, I think even Infantry can outrun it.
19 Feb 2014, 12:28 PM
#10
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

The Elefant is the slowest vehicle in the game, I think even Infantry can outrun it.

Its also best armored, most health, biggest range and biggest damage one.
Its only weakness-infantry can't do any damage to it, its other weakness, arty, is hardcountered by doctrine its in.

Its not unbeatable, but again, old TA also wasn't.
19 Feb 2014, 12:43 PM
#11
avatar of wongtp

Posts: 647

sadly, contrary to what many of u are thinking, this is in 2v2 context, not the 4v4 or whatever. games there are a mess.
19 Feb 2014, 13:00 PM
#12
avatar of Kreatiir

Posts: 2819

Elefant is slow as fuck and misses 100 times, so maybe play more games and don't come here whining about 1 unit that's INDEED very strong, but far from OP or anything you are saying.
19 Feb 2014, 13:05 PM
#13
avatar of wongtp

Posts: 647

Elefant is slow as fuck and misses 100 times, so maybe play more games and don't come here whining about 1 unit that's INDEED very strong, but far from OP or anything you are saying.


i think i play enough? i have 600 over games before the patch.. and around rank 90-150 in 2v2. so yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. not the best player, but definitely average.
19 Feb 2014, 13:10 PM
#14
avatar of negativg

Posts: 24

Yeah, it can be really ridicoulous in team games (it's ok in 1v1).
Funny thing is I remember pqumsieh saying in one of the streams that arty should be no1 counter to it, and it can actually work. Until OH player bombs the shit out of it of course...
This doctrine should not have both recon and bombing run at the same time (no doctrine should have that).

In theory, double t34/85 + guard squad + mark target will do best against it. But you need to clear it of its support first, which (especially) in team games is extremely hard, as with its range it can sit just outside the base pretty much.

By itself, the unit seems ok - its expensive and has severe disadvantages, but the doctrine should be reworked and have either recon OR bombing replaced with sth else, so it's dedicated counter isnt immediately hardcountered.

ps. shocks with schreck are indeed good as well, but you can't actually PLAN this as a strategy :)
19 Feb 2014, 13:30 PM
#15
avatar of wongtp

Posts: 647


ps. shocks with schreck are indeed good as well, but you can't actually PLAN this as a strategy :)


yea, schrecks are so bloody good in game and farms up vet darn fast. its almost a problem on its own. there was a reason why laser schrecks were nerfed in voch and years after that its back.

did relic learn nothing? but thats another issue.
19 Feb 2014, 13:31 PM
#16
avatar of BeltFedWombat
Patrion 14

Posts: 951

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Feb 2014, 12:43 PMwongtp
sadly, contrary to what many of u are thinking, this is in 2v2 context, not the 4v4 or whatever. games there are a mess.


Sorry, member of the 2 v 2 master race. i'll just fuck off then.
19 Feb 2014, 13:53 PM
#17
avatar of Bravus

Posts: 503

Permanently Banned
Nerf Elefant? lol

Turtle tank, and coming too late... Dont need that...
19 Feb 2014, 14:32 PM
#18
avatar of Kronosaur0s

Posts: 1701

WTF?? dude seriously, you want to combat the best antitank in the game...with tanks?
The same doctrine of the ISU152 has also that nuclear plane that drops 4 *fatmans*. Use that and, your welcome.
Also, the elefant is soooooooo inaccurate that it fails most of the shots. Use guards or ZiS or something, but dont fight an ANTITANK with TANK. -_- Elefant is fine as it is, but I suggest an Hold fire button for it because I cant stand it shooting at infantry...pf
19 Feb 2014, 14:35 PM
#19
avatar of wongtp

Posts: 647

WTF?? dude seriously, you want to combat the best antitank in the game...with tanks?
The same doctrine of the ISU152 has also that nuclear plane that drops 4 *fatmans*. Use that and, your welcome.
Also, the elefant is soooooooo inaccurate that it fails most of the shots. Use guards or ZiS or something, but dont fight an ANTITANK with TANK. -_- Elefant is fine as it is, but I suggest an Hold fire button for it because I cant stand it shooting at infantry...pf


dude, i want a weapon THAT WORKS. if you read correctly, i said it was uncounterable, NOT that it was too good at what it does. i listed down everything that might have a chance and it boils down to AT guns. even so with its massive hp and armour, nothing is effective.
19 Feb 2014, 14:39 PM
#20
avatar of wooof

Posts: 950 | Subs: 1

uncounterable. shits so op.

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SHOUT IT OUT!

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Rosbone: I would like to join in celebration with the 9% of Coh3 MP players who are getting ALL of the new maps. Woohoo! #3Tards
Last Friday, 19:22 PM
OKSpitfire: I hope that at least one of heavies is a like-for-like reskin of the coh 2 ISU-152. I miss that thing.
Last Friday, 10:23 AM
Rosbone: Buy our cool new large tanks that will never get played on the 4 new 1v1 maps added. Perfect synergy! :facepalm:
Last Thursday, 19:23 PM
Rosbone: Everyone ready for some deep penetration :snfPeter:
Last Thursday, 17:13 PM
Lady Xenarra: I'm sure the ppl who defended it as balanced for Allies will be screaming like they got scaled with boiling water, in COH3. How the tables turn.
Last Thursday, 11:33 AM
Willy Pete: I think it was nuts with any engine damage. Especially on superheavies
Last Thursday, 07:03 AM
aerafield: Personally I think without the ram ability, it's worse than loiters for example
Last Thursday, 00:09 AM
Willy Pete: It combined well with most slowing abilities, not just ram stuns
Last Wednesday, 23:36 PM
Willy Pete: Only??? I think not being able to shoot it down and the ramp up effect also had something to do with it
Last Wednesday, 23:34 PM
Willy Pete: Really
Last Wednesday, 23:30 PM
aerafield: AT overwatch was broken only because it came with the faction of T34 ramming
Last Wednesday, 22:29 PM
Willy Pete: Love to see Relic really learning from their past mistakes. Let's bring back the dumbest ability in coh2, and charge money for it
Last Wednesday, 20:34 PM
Willy Pete: New DAK commander will have AT overwatch as alternate choice to elefant
Last Wednesday, 20:33 PM
aaa: Funy thing new players dont know that. And are trying to compete vs hacks
Last Wednesday, 10:33 AM
aaa: Online gaming is trash in general, not just coh. On high level there are all cheats in most games
Last Wednesday, 10:24 AM
aaa: 2 cheaters in 3 days. MH and DH
Last Wednesday, 09:57 AM
aerafield: I am a simple man, I build Humvees with Pathfinders and Missile Launchers inside, I am happy
18 Feb 2025, 20:57 PM
Lady Xenarra: aerafield lamevee spammer confirmed :nahnah:
18 Feb 2025, 20:42 PM
aerafield: those who know, know: https://www.reddit.com/r/CompanyOfHeroes/s/fPk4yLIgmK
18 Feb 2025, 15:40 PM
adamírcz: Might be onto somethin here, combine side armour existing, maps where flanking is a viable option, and hopefully also heavies actually being less manouverable than mediums (lookin at you coh2), and it might be fun gameplay
17 Feb 2025, 13:39 PM
Willy Pete: Shouldn't coh3 heavies actually have insane front armor values? The glory days of 400+ Kt armor wouldn't be as bad when side armor is a thing. Not to say its a good idea lol
14 Feb 2025, 23:14 PM
aerafield: But then again, maybe CoH3 superheavies should actually have insane armor values because the whole game is designed for the clumsy & inept anyway :snfPeter:
14 Feb 2025, 23:04 PM
aerafield: It's like you have to coordinate an entire orchestra of abilities and the correct units, meanwhile your opponent just clicks his 1 superheavy tank occasionally...
14 Feb 2025, 23:01 PM
aerafield: the giga frontal armor also made these units too oppressive in average or low ELO games
14 Feb 2025, 22:59 PM
aerafield: Massive HP pool but reasonable amount of armor is way healthier design
14 Feb 2025, 22:57 PM
aerafield: Say what you want, but the titanium frontal armor design of coh2 superheavies was bullshit. Too many bad players not getting punished for their bad micro because penetration RNG carries them
14 Feb 2025, 22:57 PM
Willy Pete: Also the attack ground with the pak40 looked perfect, that Pershing should be dead
14 Feb 2025, 19:18 PM
Willy Pete: Ahh just saw the other one that died. Some bad rng I think but there was an AT gun at med range for a chunk of that fight
14 Feb 2025, 19:14 PM
Willy Pete: Which KT? I saw one got almost deleted but it also showed its side to a hellcat AND the m5. I think the player even admitted he got lucky
14 Feb 2025, 19:10 PM
Lady Xenarra: I understand that the devs want to sell the Allied part of the DLC, but the KT got swiss cheesed like a COH2 bunker on treads :S
14 Feb 2025, 15:16 PM
SupremeStefan: They should make dlc separataly for axis and alies
14 Feb 2025, 10:28 AM
SupremeStefan: 25$ is actually a ok price for 40 abilites = 8 commanders = 4 battlegroups. But problem is that it comes in bundle
14 Feb 2025, 10:24 AM
Willy Pete: Have they shown the actual trees yet for the new commanders? Skimmed through the deep dive today, didnt see em
13 Feb 2025, 22:29 PM
Rosbone: Big Tonk boners incoming :hansGASM:
13 Feb 2025, 17:38 PM
donofsandiego: Probably not
12 Feb 2025, 14:57 PM
Lone-Wolf: Hi guys. Error code -4. Any fixes?
08 Feb 2025, 17:09 PM
donofsandiego: Probably not
07 Feb 2025, 16:57 PM
SkYisTheLimiT_CoH: any coh2.org admin there ?
07 Feb 2025, 12:43 PM
Lady Xenarra: Ever the contrarian, aerafield.
07 Feb 2025, 11:59 AM
aerafield: I havent seen the new units in action yet (whose BGs will not be purchased by too many people as they are pretty expensive I recon), but I can say with 100% confidence that the Pershing needs a buff
07 Feb 2025, 02:31 AM
Lady Xenarra: I would think lots more players would come/return since there's so many iconic units being added in the new BGs. I just don't want to hear another 8+ yrs of Pershing need buff complaints
06 Feb 2025, 23:22 PM
adamírcz: If I had my supply of copium, Id say they might at least get enough money to not have to wait 5 months with problems that should be a matter of bi-weekly hotfix
06 Feb 2025, 23:10 PM
adamírcz: I mean, its overpriced,
06 Feb 2025, 23:10 PM
Rosbone: Will it help or hurt the current player base is the real question. Should add more players, but may drive many away.
06 Feb 2025, 19:17 PM
Rosbone: Yes you too can play with a persdhing for the low price of $24.99 USD. Or be the poor schlub who gets his rectum reconfigured who doesnt have the latest pay to win stuffs.
06 Feb 2025, 19:16 PM
donofsandiego: persdhing in coh 3? 😳
06 Feb 2025, 18:42 PM
Rosbone: @aerafield Ahhh, I think I made a pershing like twice in my life since that commander is pretty bad in 4s.
05 Feb 2025, 23:20 PM
aerafield: @Rosbone coh2 pershing has the same ability so, whatever. Though it's probably gonna be a 30 seconds ability to make it super broken pay to win, then 2 months later it will get "hotfixed" into a skillshot like coh2 pershing
05 Feb 2025, 22:00 PM
Rosbone: How do we feel about Pershing shooting thru multiple buildings?
05 Feb 2025, 19:43 PM
Rosbone: I am just happy Relic was smart enough to put this out now because the community was falling asleep waiting 3 months between patches. And a new/old map was shown :banana:
05 Feb 2025, 19:38 PM
aerafield: Not even the trailer can hide the trash sound effects
05 Feb 2025, 18:46 PM
Lady Xenarra: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSvwH2mXje8 Well this should result in 'interesting' reactions... :rofl:
05 Feb 2025, 18:43 PM
Ginaaa: how do i send replay to get him banned?
05 Feb 2025, 00:11 AM
Ginaaa: `just caught cooper47/ maphacking
05 Feb 2025, 00:11 AM
adamírcz: Oh well, I might look it up on dickcord and try upload anyway
02 Feb 2025, 00:27 AM
adamírcz: shiit, saw clean through me
02 Feb 2025, 00:26 AM
aerafield: That's exactly what a drophacker would say
01 Feb 2025, 22:37 PM

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