That RNG that COH2 has but not vCOH....and the Coversystem

Jump back to quoted post15 Feb 2014, 00:15 AMTurtle

Get infantry in front of the tiger to spot those T-34s.

Jump back to quoted post15 Feb 2014, 03:26 AMPorygon

Then the ramming T-34 will crush all the Grens into ham

Jump back to quoted post14 Feb 2014, 19:50 PMBubalo

...or make it more related to where you hit the tank - side, rear, front.

Jump back to quoted post14 Feb 2014, 13:05 PMBabaRoga

simplest explanation.
In COH days if you try to cross road with rifles to attack volks in green cover, you will lose that battle 100% of the time. You may lose 1 or none volks.

In COH 2 if you walk over red cover road with Cons to attack Grens in gren cover, you can either get wiped out or cross the road without any casualties, get to green cover and wipe the Gren squad.
Depending how the RNG God likes you.

Basically in COH you could be quite certain of outcome of engagement while in COH2 margin is blurry and a lot more unpredictable. Making it quite hard to make good decisions.

For example, in early game if you invest ammo for eng flame. Often it will explode in your face and wipe your squad from engagement with basic inf unit or other eng. Just because they scored a crit shot by chance.
Thats what people complain about. Way to much is decided by luck instead of skill and good decision making.

Hope that helps

Jump back to quoted post14 Feb 2014, 18:09 PMsluzbenik

Here's a fun example of RNG in tank battles:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzoYxFEf8gc

Jump back to quoted post14 Feb 2014, 18:45 PMAurgelwulf

Ram simply should not affect Tigers, a 700 manpower and 200 Fuel tank lost to a tin can with an engine. It's like having half a grenadier squad kill a shock squad.

Jump back to quoted post15 Feb 2014, 11:53 AMKatitof

Can you show us a replay where full hp T34 kills with a ram full hp Tiger so your comparison have any valid basis and I can call off bulky guys in white uniforms with special jacket with too long sleeves which I've ordered for you?

Jump back to quoted post15 Feb 2014, 13:52 PMcataclaw

Increase Ram penetration on back, Reduce Ram penetration on front. Fix'd

1.) Change ram to 100% chance to crew shock both tanks + some minorish damage, based on size of the rammed thing.

2.) Give t34/76 a munitions based upgrade to t34/85. Presto, suddenly they're more AT capable and scale better into the late game. This paradigm worked extremely well in CoH1 with Shermans.

Jump back to quoted post14 Feb 2014, 15:05 PMsluzbenik

Mines and ram success are the biggest culprits in my opinion.

Mines are just aggravating. The AOE effect obviously does more damage to clumped units but there's no way to control squad formation so you can't avoid it as far as I know. Maybe someone will find a way to shift right click moves when walking through narrow spaces to avoid clumping (I may today a bit). The AOE is basically messed up from what I read somewhere, it should not do as much damage to more distant members of a squad as what it's doing. Compared to vCOH, the effect is much less predictable. In vCOH a full-health squad might lose some members and a significant amount of health, but would never just get wiped.

Ram is a game-breaking failure of design given the RNG probabilities Relic have built in to it. Disabling a piece of expensive late-game armor is too big of a strategic event to be left to an RNG roll given the number of times it will occur in game. The Tiger Ace simply brought this problem to the forefront where everyone could clearly see that many games in COH2 are won or lost on dice rolls. As Inverse said in another thread, it's not the RNG, it's the scale of the event the RNG is affecting. Many small RNG events contribute to the game's complexity and actually do raise the skillcap, but huge events with major consequences that will not re-occur often enough for the RNG to affect both players equally are completely detrimental.

For those who don't know statistics a brief explanation - with enough occurrences of an event determined by probability in game you approach the programmed probability. But given one or two events in game, you will not hit it, just as flipping a coin only 6x will not always result in 50% heads/tails. You need a really large number of events for the actual game to reflect the programmed probabilities of the event occurring.

You can get the probability on your side though - you need about 3 well-microed T34s to have above a 75% chance of disabling a Tiger (if I remember someone's math from beta forums correctly). That's why the best counter isn't AT guns or SU-85s, but ramming. But that's still, in my opinion, an unacceptable level of RNG for such a major game event.

Jump back to quoted post14 Feb 2014, 13:05 PMBabaRoga

In COH days if you try to cross road with rifles to attack volks in green cover, you will lose that battle 100% of the time. You may lose 1 or none volks.

In COH 2 if you walk over red cover road with Cons to attack Grens in gren cover, you can either get wiped out or cross the road without any casualties, get to green cover and wipe the Gren squad.
Depending how the RNG God likes you.

Jump back to quoted post15 Feb 2014, 15:45 PMShazz

1.) Change ram to 100% chance to crew shock both tanks + some minorish damage, based on size of the rammed thing.

2.) Give t34/76 a munitions based upgrade to t34/85. Presto, suddenly they're more AT capable and scale better into the late game. This paradigm worked extremely well in CoH1 with Shermans.

Jump back to quoted post16 Feb 2014, 03:56 AMMr. Someguy

Not entirely true. You're more likely to make it without losing any men in CoH2, RNG decides the fight whether you charged over red cover or not because of how equal Grens vs Cons are, and Gren armour itself being RNG.

The real reason you lose men charging in CoH1 and not in CoH2 is health differences. In CoH1, Riflemen had 55 health. In CoH2, Conscripts (and just about every unit in the game) have 80.