Call to action - Let's Be Awesome Together

I wrote a wall of text littered with links and comparisons which no one would have read anyway - so I cut it down to this:





Dear Noun/Relic,
please give us some hope.

Right now I cannot see the silver lining and I believe a lot of 'toxicity' stems from this simple fact.

A rather a large chunk of the community (possibly even the majority) is dissatisfied with the current state of CoH2. Some issues are controversial some issues are universally accepted - which is astounding given the very nature of RTS gaming.

Please give us some indication of the plans relic and/or sega have for the future of CoH2 aside from balance patches.
A rough roadmap, even if there is no timeline whatsoever, would do nicely.
I know how unlikely a real roadmap is but please give us something, anything to look forward to.

Please give us hope for the future!






Thanks for reading.

On the contrary, the majority of top streamers and casters of CoH are native English speakers (HelpingHans, Stephenn, Siberian, Inverse, Xcom, AmiPolizeiFunk, Tommy, RnP, A_E, VonIvan etc.). Clearly, every rule has exceptions, but you will find a similar pattern within succesful competitive games.

For some reason I was thinking we are talking about CoH2.Besides HelpingHans and Siberian (great streams, btw), not many of those named are still streaming actively CoH2. On the caster side, I see ImperialDane, which has an excellent cast, but his native language is not English. Also, if you think a bit further and remember the fact that CoH2 is not only sold to "native" speakers, but globally, your statement gets even less important. I have not encountered one fun cast/stream where language was a problem or the fact that I did not see the person talking. Usually, the content and the presentation decides if the cast/stream is worth the time.

lol relic is a joke

P2W did actually appear in COH2, but you will probably be heard more if you don't attack Relic directly. They made a lot of mistakes with COH2 as a competitive game (no side armor, no universal upgrades, etc.), and I am unsure they can actually fix them. I am also actively looking for other games to play after being disappointed with COH2 and will likely take off once I find one as a result, so I feel you.

However, if we try to keep the discussion as professional as possible I suspect Relic will be more willing to make changes. They are not the enemy, bad game design is.

For some reason I was thinking we are talking about CoH2.Besides HelpingHans and Siberian (great streams, btw), not many of those named are still streaming actively CoH2. On the caster side, I see ImperialDane, which has an excellent cast, but his native language is not English. Also, if you think a bit further and remember the fact that CoH2 is not only sold to "native" speakers, but globally, your statement gets even less important. I have not encountered one fun cast/stream where language was a problem or the fact that I did not see the person talking. Usually, the content and the presentation decides if the cast/stream is worth the time.

Aren't HelpingHans, Stephenn and Siberian the top CoH2 streamers?

Again, the implicit preferences of all the viewers decides the ingredients of growth and success. Obviously, CoH2 sold worldwide, but given that roughly 80% of Sega's game sales are located in the U.S. and Europe, it is save to say that CoH2 is no exception to this.

Noun there is one question that I think truly deserves an answer from Relic:

Did you guys deliberately release new paid commanders in an overpowered form?

We've seen this a couple times now: new commander is released. Its (way) too strong for a few weeks to months, then gets nerfed. Everyone can see a perfect pattern really.

I would seriously love to hear from you which one of the two it is:
- Having genuine difficulties balancing a new commander.
- Boosting sales by releasing a deliberately too strong commander.

I understand you probably won't want to dig your own grave by acknowledging it's the latter, but even in that case I would still like to know: Why is it so difficult to properly balance a commander on your beta servers before you release it?

Please answer this, I've been wanting to know the answer for a long long time and I think the community deserves it.

I'm still waiting for the 222 Ace.

I'm still waiting for the 222 Ace.

Its called Elite training, you right click it on 222 and there you have it!

I understand you probably won't want to dig your own grave by acknowledging it's the latter, but even in that case I would still like to know: Why is it so difficult to properly balance a commander on your beta servers before you release it?

I honestly don't think Relic has any interest in intentionally releasing OP commanders per se. But the thing is, if they release a commander and it turns out to be weak/UP/trash, then not only will it be less appealing to buy, but it will gain the reputation of being "Not really worth the money, It's not viable" Which could easily stick around after they buff it up to a reasonable level. They are probably erring on the side of profit, which i understand. They are a business and they could be feeling the pressure to prove they are worth the investment sega made in them, so they can continue making the games they want without being torn apart and made to create total war DLC or something.

That being said, i really wish they'd find some way to scrap the entire doctrine system, build a new one with community/top player input, and make it up to people who bought the previous commanders. Maybe giving them vouchers for the new commanders. IE, people who bought the Terror Tactics and Anti Infantry tactics DLCS would recieve vouchers for the new *branching* "Fear and Intimidation" and "Flame" Doctrines.

Wow. I'm going to go fantasize about CoH2 with a CnC Generalesque commander system.

Don't ruin this for me.

Its called Elite training, you right click it on 222 and there you have it!

Noun there is one question that I think truly deserves an answer from Relic:

Did you guys deliberately release new paid commanders in an overpowered form?

Nope.

Adjusting balance isn't cheap. It's not the most expensive thing we do, but it's not free. It would be better if we did it perfect the first time. Everyone would be happier, and we'd save time and effort in adjusting things after release.

Whatever money extra we might make by releasing an unbalanced piece of DLC on purpose is likely not worth the cost of fixing it later. How many people only would buy a Commander because its stats are say X% better than they should be? Probably not enough to justify that kind of plan.

Further it's a trick that would only work a few times, as people would come to expect a balance change.

In the end we don't deliberately try to do things to make people mad. Yes things we do make some people mad, but that's not our goal.

In the end we iterate, learn what worked and what didn't and move forward.

Nope.

Adjusting balance isn't cheap. It's not the most expensive thing we do, but it's not free. It would be better if we did it perfect the first time. Everyone would be happier, and we'd save time and effort in adjusting things after release.

Whatever money extra we might make by releasing an unbalanced piece of DLC on purpose is likely not worth the cost of fixing it later. How many people only would buy a Commander because its stats are say X% better than they should be? Probably not enough to justify.

Further it's a trick that would only work a few times, as people would come to expect a balance change.

In the end we don't deliberately try to do things to make people mad. Yes things we do make some people mad, but that's not our goal.

In the end we iterate, learn what worked and what didn't and move forward.

That's good to hear. I just hope that in the future there won't be a 3 month wait for the next iteration.

That's good to hear. I just hope that in the future there won't be a 3 month wait for the next iteration.

Things take time to change.

Balance is quicker. We've updated the Elite Troops and I'm sure it may be looked at again in the near future.

If we look at something like an economic model for selling a specific type of DLC content, then that's a bit of a harder change to make. There may be stuff in the pipeline that we've spent money making, that we need to recoup the cost.

We're working more agile, quicker and able to make adjustments faster than we used to be able to. But things still take awhile.

That's good to hear. I just hope that in the future there won't be a 3 month wait for the next iteration.

It is good to hear. I hope it is true too. Not doubting Noun's sincerity but since intentions and plans change, I hope we don't see any more Elite Troop/Soviet Industry-style commanders in the future.

This game needs balance to survive and flourish.

Why is it so difficult to properly balance a commander on your beta servers before you release it?

Nothing has brought me greater pleasure than hearing that the Beta program is going to be 'refreshed' after the patch note leaks a couple days ago. There has never been full disclosure as to whom these Beta testers are. Everybody has vested interests. Given that both Elite Troops and Soviet Industry were released, and subsequent nerfing to Soviet Industry occurred way before Elite Troops I have very low faith that the balancing team are objective in their work. Much like the Eve Online community the semi~open Beta needs to be made full open.

As many people said before, I think the main issue isnt Relic not realizing something is Overpowered (or even wanting to release it that way) but simply the pace in which things get handled lately.

To increase speed, and community engagement i'd think something like a Watchlist would be great. Just make some (maybe 3) Forum threads, call them after a Element thats being looked on for the next Balance Iteration (e.g. Watchlist: Tiger Ace). Then make this a contructive Thread for the Community to engage in and Relic to take Ideas from regarding the Elements Balance. Maybe even add a poll (to strong, to weak, ok).

I think this could benefit speed of Balance Iteration steps and Community satisfaction with the state of the Game.

As for the Content Problem, why is there no such Stream again as you guys at Relic did (was it last year?) with Noun moderating some questions to some Relic Dev's, why dont do this again?

I think the community will be really enthusiastic if things would like this stream or the watchlist would happen...

If Relic shows enthusiasm for the game, Im sure the community will follow.

It's a great sign that Noun has been answering questions here pretty much all day. Certainly given the amount of crap present here, I'd say things are looking up. If they can stay this way, CoH2's future looks a tad brighter.