Why don't you take part in tournaments?

Balance isn't the problem unfortunately.

I didn't bring up balance, Budwise did.

I didn't bring up balance, Budwise did.

I don't think Budwise was talking about balance.

Its been obvious since COH2 alpha that although you guys listen to the community, nearly every word goes in one ear and out the other. We warned you back in Alpha how things were bad, we told you that we dont want Pay to Win DLC, we told you that the doctrine system was poor and that the UI was terrible, we have pages and pages of feedback since then and the Dev response is usually a pre-canned "we'll take that into consideration thanks" and nothing ever actually happens.

The game has some fundamental flaws besides balance, mainly the ones Basilone wrote before. And about those Relic has never pronounced and they are the ones we're talking about.

I don't think Bud has a problem with true balance, such as this tank underperforming, or that infantry squad being a bit too strong. I think he was referring to the abundance of cheesy units and abilities, such as the strafing runs, T34 ram, M3s, 6 man weapon crews, super tanks, Tiger Ace, Soviet Windustry, etc. When the game is full of so much cheesy stuff that leaves you feeling like you've been cheated almost every time you lose, its a design issue. Clearly some things have been implemented with little or no thought beforehand (particularly strafing runs and Tiger Ace).

I didn't bring up balance, Budwise did.

It's just because you mentioned the balance beta as an area where the developers are interacting with the community in an attempt to make the game better. That's great and should definitely continue, but I was just pointing out that I think developers should be getting feedback from the community on matters other than balance, since I don't think balancing the current game is going to solve the problems people have with it. And discussions about matters other than balance rarely get more than an obligatory "Thanks for the feedback!" response.

There have been great discussions on both this forum and the forum Budwise is referring to about core design issues that go dormant largely thanks to the lack of meaningful feedback on the part of the developers. I just think it's a missed opportunity.

Inverse you make well reasoned and well stated points. Thank you for taking part in this thread.

Budwise I haven't seen you play a single game of beta with us/the devs. I haven't seen you come to the beta chat a single time, and I haven't seen you make a single post in the beta forums.

I don't really know what more you expect Relic to do... they're already playing with us frequently and engaging in conversations on a nearly daily basis...

Inverse you make well reasoned and well stated points. Thank you for taking part in this thread.

Noun, no disrespect intended here, but it's canned responses like this, without even as much as acknowledging the problem raised, is what makes many here feel like things won't change.

I think its too late to fix coh2 right now, the best relic can do is keep doing good patches until an expansion and then redesign some of the core of ostheer and soviet. Relic redesigned the commanders in vcoh way back so i dont see this as impossible.

Noun, no disrespect intended here, but it's canned responses like this, without even as much as acknowledging the problem raised, is what makes many here feel like things won't change.

Because Noun is not a person to acknowledge for anything.
His job is to gather and pass feedback from community to devs and informations from devs right back to us.
Be happy he talks to us at all, because vast majority of CMs simply ignore community and limit themselves to posting patch notes/tweets and other important but not community engaging stuff.

Because Noun is not a person to acknowledge for anything.
His job is to gather and pass feedback from community to devs and informations from devs right back to us.
Be happy he talks to us at all, because vast majority of CMs simply ignore community and limit themselves to posting patch notes/tweets and other important but not community engaging stuff.

The problem here is it feels simply like lip service and no action and it's been this way long before official release.

Sometimes saying nothing is better than saying something.

The problem here is it feels simply like lip service and no action and it's been this way long before official release.

Sometimes saying nothing is better than saying something.

So you don't want canned responses from Relic but you think saying nothing is better than saying something? Communications on a level like this is not easy at all so props to Relic for doing so.

On topic :

I'm quite convinced that I'm not good enough. That's it.
I love the vibe of a tourney tough, so who knows I might give it a go...

I try to take part in the tournaments, if I don't it's because of personal/social events that I might have at the same time, I hate having a social life

At first, I was also hesitant because I didn't think I belong there but so I can see why some people might not want to join if they don't think they have the slightest chance.

I think it's important to have some important prizes for SNF and important events but I mostly join for fun and the experience.

Because Noun is not a person to acknowledge for anything.
His job is to gather and pass feedback from community to devs and informations from devs right back to us.
Be happy he talks to us at all, because vast majority of CMs simply ignore community and limit themselves to posting patch notes/tweets and other important but not community engaging stuff.

i admit that i cannot speak for the current balance beta or battle server test forums or whatever, but at least in the pre-release beta, it felt the same to me (and it was not just noun there, in fact, noun was mainly moderating over there iirc, and he did that job fine from what i could tell). in particular i remember one thread that i started, that was one of the most viewed/commented on threads in the beta forums, where at first there was no reaction to my (admittedly mainly negative... but when giving feedback you mention what you think should be changed, not the stuff you want to remain the same/that is fine) criticsm, then a bland "thx for feedback" and when i kept asking in other threads about the UI (which was a major part of my problem with the game) i got outright told something like "yeah... we're not gonna change that", despite a LOT of beta participants agreeing.

BTT: basically what others have said: balance is not the problem... might be bad on one patch, might be great the next. even stuff like input lag and/or regular lag is something that you can "play through". you can't play through/around fundamental design flaws though.

For me:
1) Currently not playing and thus not active in the community (tech running wonky atm, also waiting for next patch to fix it)
2) Wouldn't come very far: I think many players may not want to go through the effort to join tournaments when they can't really win anything. Maybe hand out a few goodies to many (not to all but also not too few) contestants, no matter of their placement as long as they actually participated and played their matches. (It probably wouldn't motivate me a lot but maybe others.)

So you don't want canned responses from Relic but you think saying nothing is better than saying something? Communications on a level like this is not easy at all so props to Relic for doing so.

Is there a difference in the outcome between either? No there isn't. The issue remains ignored and unresolved.

A canned response actually just makes me feel patronized which is even worse than simply being ignored.

Is there a difference in the outcome between either? No there isn't. The issue remains ignored and unresolved.

A canned response actually just makes me feel patronized which is even worse than simply being ignored.

I agree. The SNF finals interviews were insulting 100% more than informative. All I heard was "we are excited for the future of this game hype hype blabla bla bla." How about telling us about the present...

Also if we had a legitimate observer mode (which Relic refuses to talk about) I think the player base would be quite a bit larger.

Why I don't have an interest in tournaments:
*Too much RNG
*Vehicle AI is retarded
*DLC commanders (I'm not going to buy em all, let alone at full price, so I'll be waiting on a sale while stuff like Tiger Ace and Sov Industry has unfair advantages)
*Not enough patch support or communication from Relic. Feels like a disinterested dev (years of waiting on CoH1 balance patches doesn't give me much hope)

What would make me consider tournament play:
*Fix the above and most of the competitive issues will be gone.
*Add observer mode for players to watch games directly thru the client/game (think DOTA2)
*An expansion on observer mode; sell tickets via Steam or DLC for tournaments (again, think DOTA2).

I agree. The SNF finals interviews were insulting 100% more than informative. All I heard was "we are excited for the future of this game hype hype blabla bla bla." How about telling us about the present...

Agreed. The finals came at a point where we had nothing new to say. Quinn took part as a tradition and probably shouldn't have, that was my fault because I pressed him to at the request of the SNF crew.

Peter was only meant to be casting and not talking about the future of the game.

In the future out appearance on community shows will be better thought out so that we have something exciting to talk about rather than just assuming that people will be happy to see us because we're us.

That's hubris.

I generally only play with one of my mates so a 2v2 (or higher) tourney would be more up my alley

People need to stop bashing relic and jump off the bandwagon. Complaining about their appearance on SNF is taking it too far, I think they mostly give good information.