RAM = Stun is a good idea.
It should be rarely used.
How to nerf RNG gods
9 Jan 2014, 20:16 PM
#21
Posts: 337
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9 Jan 2014, 20:49 PM
#22
Posts: 308
RAM = Stun is a good idea.
It should be rarely used.
I agree, however, the stun should last significantly longer on medium vehicles then.
9 Jan 2014, 21:35 PM
#23
6 
Posts: 600
I agree, however, the stun should last significantly longer on medium vehicles then.
how about 8 seconds stun on heavy tanks with a 200 dmg to T34 + 2 seconds stun.
and 8 seconds stun to medium tanks + 200 dmg and 200 dmg to T34 +2 seconds stun.
The damage that vehicles take can be changed I just gave an example.
10 Jan 2014, 01:57 AM
#24
Posts: 1439
8 second stun for 280 mp and 85 fuel? How's that even a good idea?
Shall we change German units as well? To follow this design shouldn't units using "Target weak point" explode after stun?
On the serious note this would only work if you could keep the tank after stun. I would even support this kind of change as I don't like ram ability in general, but if it would stay as it is right now, stun for 8 second and after that the tank is useless, then no. No way, you gotta be joking to propose such a change.
Shall we change German units as well? To follow this design shouldn't units using "Target weak point" explode after stun?
On the serious note this would only work if you could keep the tank after stun. I would even support this kind of change as I don't like ram ability in general, but if it would stay as it is right now, stun for 8 second and after that the tank is useless, then no. No way, you gotta be joking to propose such a change.
10 Jan 2014, 02:08 AM
#25
6 Posts: 600
8 second stun for 280 mp and 85 fuel? How's that even a good idea?
Shall we change German units as well? To follow this design shouldn't units using "Target weak point" explode after stun?
On the serious note this would only work if you could keep the tank after stun. I would even support this kind of change as I don't like ram ability in general, but if it would stay as it is right now, stun for 8 second and after that the tank is useless, then no. No way, you gotta be joking to propose such a change.
Read my idea, comprehend it.
10 Jan 2014, 03:45 AM
#26
Posts: 344
Here's the thing with ramming. It's annoying, but if you have support for your tank nearby, you should be golden. If you send your Panther off alone to a corner of the map to hunt some capping engies and a T-34 rams you, then it's a L2P issue. In that case, asking for an 8 second stun after which the Panther can just nom the T-34 is...unintelligent. IMHO, I think ramming is fine. If you see a T-34 driving at you at full speed, expect a ram, tap your U key, and click somewhere in your base sector to GTFO. Or flee back to your HHAT/ATGs that should be present to cover you.
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10 Jan 2014, 04:43 AM
#27
Posts: 66
On the serious note this would only work if you could keep the tank after stun.
wtf man is not hard to think like a normal human, what i proposed is a REWORK not a buff to ram, to make it only stun 8(it can be any number) seconds to both tanks
after that, obviously, both tanks remain fully operational. Everybody gets the idea except you
10 Jan 2014, 04:53 AM
#28
Posts: 66
Here is another reason why RNG into RAM is bad : if the sov player has multiple t34s and his first try to immobilize an enemy tank fails, he will try again and again with the rest of his t34s which looks totally wierd and silly
10 Jan 2014, 06:07 AM
#29
Posts: 4928
I like the ram = stun idea. My take on it is T-34 ram should stun the enemy vehicle, possibly with a very small chance to immobilize. The stun on the enemy could be 8 seconds, while only 3 or 4 for the T-34 (the crew should anticipate the impact). The T-34 itself will only suffer a chip of damage from the maneuver. Ramming weak light vehicles should have a chance to 'out of control' or 'abandon' them.
As for Abandon, I agree that abandonment should also immobilize or damage the engine. But to add to that, after abandonment have the vehicle recover 20-40% of its health automatically. Abandoned vehicles rarely get a chance to be recovered because they get one-shot by anything, this would change that and make recovery efforts more desirable by both teams.
As for Abandon, I agree that abandonment should also immobilize or damage the engine. But to add to that, after abandonment have the vehicle recover 20-40% of its health automatically. Abandoned vehicles rarely get a chance to be recovered because they get one-shot by anything, this would change that and make recovery efforts more desirable by both teams.
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10 Jan 2014, 11:00 AM
#30
Posts: 1439
wtf man is not hard to think like a normal human, what i proposed is a REWORK not a buff to ram, to make it only stun 8(it can be any number) seconds to both tanks
after that, obviously, both tanks remain fully operational. Everybody gets the idea except you
Sorry, but that wasn't clear enough for me, all right?
BTW ram is easy to avoid. You either keep your tanks at distance to have time to reverse or up close , because ram got minimum activation distance. Flanking is useful as well as T-34 will have to rotate to attempt to ram you.
10 Jan 2014, 13:32 PM
#31
Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1
Sorry, but that wasn't clear enough for me, all right?
BTW ram is easy to avoid. You either keep your tanks at distance to have time to reverse or up close , because ram got minimum activation distance. Flanking is useful as well as T-34 will have to rotate to attempt to ram you.
Ram is not easy to avoid. If you have a heavy tank you cannot move back fast enough and you cannot catch up to T34's going backwards to achieve minimum range. If you have a medium tank you can try to get close but this plays into the Soviet player by further extending your tank. In addition, I posted about a bug which allows Sov players to ignore the minimum distance on ram. Finally, an overheated T34 need only kiss the front of a tank to get the hit. It looks, and feels, extremely stupid. Not to mention the many tank slowing abilities the Sov have to make sure ram hits (mines, at nades, button).
Ram is too random.
Get rid of it as it stands it does not reward thinking or skill, it's just a roll of the die.
10 Jan 2014, 13:48 PM
#32
Posts: 1439
Maybe for you it is but I don't have problems with Ram in general. Good positioning and keeping the distance together with supporting your tanks with infantry is enough to neglect Ram. I only get rammed when I don't pay attention to my tanks, overextend or when flanked. Frontal ram - hit reverse and you're good. Even if he gets successful ram somehow you can still retreat and repair your tank easily while he looses his.
I played around 20 games as German in the recent week and most of the whine on this forum I disagree with because it comes from bad play rather than balance issues.
My biggest concerns when I am playing Germans atm is 120 mm Mortar and Soviet indirect fire capabilities but it could be that I need to tweak my strategy a bit.
I played around 20 games as German in the recent week and most of the whine on this forum I disagree with because it comes from bad play rather than balance issues.
My biggest concerns when I am playing Germans atm is 120 mm Mortar and Soviet indirect fire capabilities but it could be that I need to tweak my strategy a bit.
10 Jan 2014, 16:29 PM
#33
Posts: 449
Maybe for you it is but I don't have problems with Ram in general. Good positioning and keeping the distance together with supporting your tanks with infantry is enough to neglect Ram. I only get rammed when I don't pay attention to my tanks, overextend or when flanked. Frontal ram - hit reverse and you're good. Even if he gets successful ram somehow you can still retreat and repair your tank easily while he looses his.
I played around 20 games as German in the recent week and most of the whine on this forum I disagree with because it comes from bad play rather than balance issues.
My biggest concerns when I am playing Germans atm is 120 mm Mortar and Soviet indirect fire capabilities but it could be that I need to tweak my strategy a bit.
The problem doesn't really lie with the ram itself but rather with the crits it triggers. The crits are pure RNG, and the player doesn't have much influence over them but the outcome has huge consequences.
Here's an example:
Assuming a ram successfully hits a tiger (or tiger ace), whether or not a damaged engine or gun destroyed crit gets triggered can decide the game. It doesn't matter that the chances are low or not. If one of these crits gets triggered, you stand a significantly better chance of winning. If it doesn't, you're more likely to loose. There's a lot riding on this one dice roll.
Player skill is involved up to the point where the ram lands, but once it does it's a lottery. The proposed stun only rework would allow player skill to continue playing the more important role even after the ram hits.
I hope this clarifies things.
10 Jan 2014, 16:37 PM
#34
Posts: 1439
There is a slight problem you guys seem to forget about. T-34/76 got very low chances to penetrate anything bigger than a PanzerIV.
When you're trying to fight Panthers or Tigers with it, usually half of your shoots bounce off. 8 second of stun is not long enough to punish off a overextended Panther tank.
There is a small chance of reworking a Ram mechanics as a re work to Soviet T3 would be required as well.
When you're trying to fight Panthers or Tigers with it, usually half of your shoots bounce off. 8 second of stun is not long enough to punish off a overextended Panther tank.
There is a small chance of reworking a Ram mechanics as a re work to Soviet T3 would be required as well.
10 Jan 2014, 17:07 PM
#35
Posts: 950 | Subs: 1
why do you expect the 2nd cheapest tank in the game (which also happens to be primarily an AI tank) to easily pen panthers and tigers? i dont think anyone forgot about that. and 8 seconds is actually enough to punish a panther. even a t34 has a 71% chance to pen its rear armor. ram, then block its path backwards while shooting the rear. i already do this when my rams fail and i get crew shock.
ive also said this before but... zis
ive also said this before but... zis
10 Jan 2014, 17:24 PM
#36
Posts: 1439
ZiS do little to nothing against Tigers and Panthers. You have to rely on Rams. It takes like 20 seconds to finish off successfully rammed Panther with T-34/76.
One of the recent games I drew a Tiger straight into 3 ZiS and they didn't even take 25% of its HP. ZiS fails to penetrate Tigers rear armour for like 50% of shoots(!)
It's not about cost. As a Soviet you have absolutely NOTHING to deal with Tigers and Panthers when you go T3 only and don't have any call in tanks. Nothing.
One of the recent games I drew a Tiger straight into 3 ZiS and they didn't even take 25% of its HP. ZiS fails to penetrate Tigers rear armour for like 50% of shoots(!)
It's not about cost. As a Soviet you have absolutely NOTHING to deal with Tigers and Panthers when you go T3 only and don't have any call in tanks. Nothing.
10 Jan 2014, 17:31 PM
#37
Posts: 950 | Subs: 1
i never said you will kill the panther in 8 seconds. but thats enough time to get around it and block its path, which buys you more time to shoot its rear armor.
also i dont follow your logic at all. zis does "nothing" against tigers/panthers, so use t34s which do less damage and have less than half the pen? zis has the same penetration as the su85 and is2. they all have 170 pen, which is the highest for any soviet unit.
also i dont follow your logic at all. zis does "nothing" against tigers/panthers, so use t34s which do less damage and have less than half the pen? zis has the same penetration as the su85 and is2. they all have 170 pen, which is the highest for any soviet unit.
10 Jan 2014, 17:41 PM
#38
Posts: 1439
Zis gets 2 shooted by a Tiger. Because of its HP pool even multiple ZiSs are no threat to it. I would ignore T-34/76 as they do nothing and I will go for ZiS with Tiger and supporting infantry. Without a ram there is nothing you can do to stop me.
10 Jan 2014, 17:48 PM
#39
Posts: 4928
i never said you will kill the panther in 8 seconds. but thats enough time to get around it and block its path, which buys you more time to shoot its rear armor.
also i dont follow your logic at all. zis does "nothing" against tigers/panthers, so use t34s which do less damage and have less than half the pen? zis has the same penetration as the su85 and is2. they all have 170 pen, which is the highest for any soviet unit.
No he's saying that Soviet AT are useless, so the only way to kill a German Tank is to Ram it to kill its gun and destroy the engine.
Personally I disagree with that, Soviet AT balanced itself by being sustainable, while German AT are glass cannons.
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10 Jan 2014, 18:47 PM
#40
Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1
Zis gets 2 shooted by a Tiger. Because of its HP pool even multiple ZiSs are no threat to it. I would ignore T-34/76 as they do nothing and I will go for ZiS with Tiger and supporting infantry. Without a ram there is nothing you can do to stop me.
That is not true. If you have good micro you should be able to place your tank in front of an enemy tank to stop it at the least. Or you can use guards, or mines, or at nades, or cloak the Zis. Zis guns usually take 3 or more shots from the tiger to kill so you get shots off with it. The range is also amazing. The tiger has to come into its range not the other way around. I would never move a single tiger at 2 zis guns. It is too dangerous. Ram is a crutch to use when all else fails and you want to roll the die, or if you are already crushing someone to rub it in their face.
Ram as a stun mechanic is fine with me. Ram as a crippling mechanic is stupid.
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