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Another nerf needed

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Z3r07
3 Jan 2014, 01:02 AM
#61
avatar of Z3r07
Donator 11

Posts: 1006

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Jan 2014, 00:13 AMferrozoica




Insta-gibbing has always been the most satisfying aspect of CoH! :crazy:

Goliaths
105 on map and off map
Airborne strafe
V1
PE booby traps
Teller mines
Pershing/Tiger
Stuka rockets
etc


If anything the Stuka strafe could do with a bit of a buff and I don't think anyone would argue against that



Goliaths:

You did need to micro it in order to kill with it.

V1, PE booby traps, Stuka rockets:

as soon as you hear the sound, move your units and you are fine, basically there was a counter for these abilities, meaning a way to avoid them.

No matter where you run, they IL-2 will find you :P that is the problem here.
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JHeartless
3 Jan 2014, 01:45 AM
#62
avatar of JHeartless

Posts: 1637

I think it wants it two dollars. God i wish i could insert a better of dead meme here...
jump backJump back to quoted post5 Mar 2015, 21:57 PMREforever
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
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SgtBulldog
3 Jan 2014, 08:53 AM
#63
avatar of SgtBulldog

Posts: 688

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Jan 2014, 14:51 PMRoosterSamurai
The ostwind is not a valid counter to the il-2. At this point in the metagame, the ostwind is negated hard by T34s and fast SU-85s... Building an ostwind is relegating yourself to defeat.


The Ostwind is the ONLY german real AA. You have no choice unless you intend to just take the beating from soviet air.

Ofc. the Ostwind is countered by a SU85. But that doesn't have anything to do with the air-countering. Just keep your Ostwind off the frontline if th enemy has tanks too.
'There's honour in victory, honour in defeat and honour in just staying alive'.
[Quote from Wings Reel]
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Stonethecrow01
3 Jan 2014, 09:05 AM
#64
avatar of Stonethecrow01

Posts: 379

I'd like a nerf to the Soviet Strafe (not the other things being discussed in this thread).

It does squad wipes on the reg and will kill a full health nebelwerfer.

I'd like it to do enough potential damage to reduce squads to 1-2 men, maybe kill them once in a blue moon, and reduce nebs to low health and criticaled.

Unfortunately, I'm fairly sure it's a lot more complicated than entering those limitations into the code and I think the strafe is something that will be very hard to balance between useful and too powerful.
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KyleAkira
4 Jan 2014, 12:18 PM
#65
avatar of KyleAkira

Posts: 410

Why there's no relic staff replies in important posts like this?
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Thunderhun
4 Jan 2014, 23:34 PM
#66
avatar of Thunderhun

Posts: 1617

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Jan 2014, 12:18 PMKyleAkira
Why there's no relic staff replies in important posts like this?


It's holiday, ppl are taking a brake :D
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SgtBulldog
5 Jan 2014, 13:54 PM
#67
avatar of SgtBulldog

Posts: 688

Plus they might be fed up with the constant cry for nerfs...
'There's honour in victory, honour in defeat and honour in just staying alive'.
[Quote from Wings Reel]
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spaz
5 Jan 2014, 16:33 PM
#68
avatar of spaz
Donator 11

Posts: 44

Just keep your Ostwind off the frontline if th enemy has tanks too.


The issue with this statement is that you now have a 115 fuel unit sitting in the back of your lines waiting for the possibility of a soviet plane and not contributing to the armour vs armour fight
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wongtp
5 Jan 2014, 18:27 PM
#69
avatar of wongtp

Posts: 647

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Jan 2014, 16:33 PMspaz


The issue with this statement is that you now have a 115 fuel unit sitting in the back of your lines waiting for the possibility of a soviet plane and not contributing to the armour vs armour fight


of course it doesnt contribute to armour fights, it isnt even equipped to do the job neither is its intended role in game was to take out tanks. place him behind ur lines to take out planes and stop infantry flanks.

same thing with m5 quads.

but i do feel that 115 fuel for that kinda role is a little too much of an investment, but hey it stops light vehicles too i hope.
SunBro

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Imagelessbean
5 Jan 2014, 21:06 PM
#70
avatar of Imagelessbean

Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Jan 2014, 18:27 PMwongtp
of course it doesnt contribute to armour fights, it isnt even equipped to do the job neither is its intended role in game was to take out tanks. place him behind ur lines to take out planes and stop infantry flanks.

same thing with m5 quads.

but i do feel that 115 fuel for that kinda role is a little too much of an investment, but hey it stops light vehicles too i hope.


His point is that ostwinds are too expensive to have just for AA in the background. I agree very strongly. Storing an M3 further back so I can reinforce when needed is nothing like that. The M3 is designed to be off the front line. Its cost, mp and pop, reflect this. It also reinforces troops and can perform AA duty. Germans cannot afford to sit an ostwind on the map just in case a plane flies by. Ability to destroy light vehicles has nothing to do with this balance problem.
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SgtBulldog
6 Jan 2014, 09:38 AM
#71
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Posts: 688

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Jan 2014, 21:06 PMImagelessbean


His point is that ostwinds are too expensive to have just for AA in the background. I agree very strongly. Storing an M3 further back so I can reinforce when needed is nothing like that. The M3 is designed to be off the front line. Its cost, mp and pop, reflect this. It also reinforces troops and can perform AA duty. Germans cannot afford to sit an ostwind on the map just in case a plane flies by. Ability to destroy light vehicles has nothing to do with this balance problem.


I think I just wrote 'off the frontline'. Not 'in the back'.

And as mentioned above, the Ostwind isn't supposed to fight tanks (except for T70 or a damaged T34).

You build the Ost in two situations: early to break up enemy infantry. Or late if enemy air becomes too much of a concern.

Oh, well there's a typical third reason: for a breakthrough with other tanks - for example to deal with Zis guns.

All that said, I do agree that it does feel a bit too expensive in fuel. It should not cost the same as a PzIV. And if I'm not much mistaken neither did it in COH1(?)
'There's honour in victory, honour in defeat and honour in just staying alive'.
[Quote from Wings Reel]
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bämbabäm
8 Jan 2014, 11:44 AM
#72
avatar of bämbabäm

Posts: 246

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Jan 2014, 18:40 PMferrozoica
But 1 squad getting gibbed + a full retreat for 240 munis seems pretty fair to me.


Pay 240 muni to erase a vet 3 PG squad with Schrecks for 120 muni + full retreat seems fair to you? I'd take this ability event without the retreat bonus, 240mun vs 360MP/120mun (and maybe even vet3) is awesome (especially with all the mun you have as a soviet player, at least I always have several 100 available).
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wooof
8 Jan 2014, 16:48 PM
#73
avatar of wooof

Posts: 950 | Subs: 1

relic considers munitions to be worth 1.6 mp. they also designed the new veterancy to make units 1.6 times more powerful. so technically wiping a single vet 3 gren squad with no upgrades is an even trade. i think il2 typically kills a lot more than that though. a vet 3 screck squad is worth double the cost of an il2 and they die to strafe quite often.
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Tristan44
8 Jan 2014, 17:20 PM
#74
avatar of Tristan44

Posts: 915

There is really no arguing that a nerf is needed. There is little a player can do to avoid losing 1-2 squads and or support teams. The german strafes have nothing on this, the only thing that comes close is "stuka air support" which heavily damages tanks, but usually doesn't kill them in 1 pass. IL2 is another reason I cannot keep my poor fragile german sniper alive, I retreat him and hide him in a bunker. If I don't lose my units right away, I usually hide them in bunkers or houses if I can. That works ok but I still have to wait 30-45 seconds before the damn thing is gone, which gives plenty of time for a sov player to push.
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wooof
8 Jan 2014, 17:40 PM
#75
avatar of wooof

Posts: 950 | Subs: 1

the german AT strafe is just not as useful. the il2 will kill infantry or light vehicles with ease and even deal quite a bit of damage (with a good chance of critting because it fires so so many shots) to tanks. like i said, you kill a single vet3 squad and its paid for itself.

on the other hand, the stuka strafe is only good against vehicles. relic has tried to make it do damage equal to its equivalent cost in mp (384). relic consider fuel to be worth 5 mp, so even a t34 is worth 705 mp. since tanks have such a high value, dealing damage equal to 384 mp doesnt have much impact. then, moving that tank away and repairing has no cost. the only time this ability pays off is when the tank is at low health to begin with. il2 on the otherhand will wipe full hp units with no problem, so its useful in just about any situation.
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BeltFedWombat
8 Jan 2014, 17:40 PM
#76
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Patrion 14

Posts: 951

I just used this ability in a big 4 v 4 with lotttssss of fresssshhh meat on the field. It is a flying +5 vorpal battleaxe.

I can see why it pisses people off.

And when I play sovs invariably I have stacks of munis - I managed three IL-2 strafes in a forty-minute game.
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OZtheWiZARD
8 Jan 2014, 19:00 PM
#77
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Posts: 1439

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Jan 2014, 17:40 PMBeltFedWombat
I just used this ability in a big 4 v 4 with lotttssss of fresssshhh meat on the field. It is a flying +5 vorpal battleaxe.

I can see why it pisses people off.

And when I play sovs invariably I have stacks of munis - I managed three IL-2 strafes in a forty-minute game.


4v4, 3v3 or even 2v2 will never be completely balanced.
There are too many people on this forum crying for nerf or buff who are basing their judgement on team games experience only.
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PaRaNo1a
8 Jan 2014, 19:16 PM
#78
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Posts: 600

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Jan 2014, 19:00 PMOZtheWiZARD


4v4, 3v3 or even 2v2 will never be completely balanced.
There are too many people on this forum crying for nerf or buff who are basing their judgement on team games experience only.


True, but they can make it something balanced, not a complete shitfest where 1 min you fight shocks and on the next you see SU running around the field and Straffing run decimate those units that retreated as soon as the smoke drops.....
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BeltFedWombat
8 Jan 2014, 19:44 PM
#79
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jump backJump back to quoted post8 Jan 2014, 19:00 PMOZtheWiZARD


4v4, 3v3 or even 2v2 will never be completely balanced.
There are too many people on this forum crying for nerf or buff who are basing their judgement on team games experience only.


Blah blah blah. You know the 1 v 1 crowd are in a minority, don't you. I play 1 v 1 too, nut the disdain shown for people who enjoy bigger games (i.e. most of us) is hilarious.
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PaRaNo1a
8 Jan 2014, 19:50 PM
#80
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Posts: 600

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Jan 2014, 19:44 PMBeltFedWombat


Blah blah blah. You know the 1 v 1 crowd are in a minority, don't you. I play 1 v 1 too, nut the disdain shown for people who enjoy bigger games (i.e. most of us) is hilarious.


1v1 is a minority because the game is unbalanced and becomes boring after a while ( especially in 1v1 where you use only one opener 5xCons/5xGrens, occasionally you will see penals and early shocks). Relic is on holidays ( Pretty damn long ones if you ask me) so there is no updates on issues or actual fixes. I give CoH2 another year of struggling and then it will be on a 90% discount permanently.
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