i find that the il2 strafe actualy soes really good damage not only to infantry but also vehicles. anyways, i find building an ostwind is a must. it does shoot down planes on occasion. however, i have also had il2 strafe blow up my ostwind before it could shoot down the plane. i would say tone down the il2 and stuka strafes. arty should be powerful, but i dont think that either side should have the ability to whipe entire armies with 240 muni. perhaps have it so that the targets must be in sight?
as afar as team game balance, i would say that 4v4 is currently the closest thing to being balanced right now with the 1 cp shock troops. you can actualy get pgrens around the same time.
Another nerf needed
1 Jan 2014, 23:23 PM
#41
Posts: 135
1 Jan 2014, 23:27 PM
#42
Posts: 6
Heavy Strafing Run
For the strafe is fine the way it is, just lower the DMG so it can't completely kill squad on the first pass. You have your vet3 PG/Gren and they are gone in a instant is not fun.
120mm Mortar
I am ok with the DMG of this unit as its doing what should be. Problem I have with it is that some players abuse spam it and then it really hurts your infantry(MP). To kill it you need something with more DPS, PG, HT flame... Single grens are heaving trouble killing it fast enought before it retreats. So I don't know maybe reduce the HP by little or just leave it like that and just buff the germans.
Relic said the counter to this is the mortar halftrack with the incendiary barrage. In my eyes that is little expensive coz you need that fuel to get tanks, it will just slow your teching. For something that only cost MP.
KV-8
After the last nerf on the KV-8 I think is ok now. They dont insta kill squads like before, you can still faust it and retreat.
IS-2
IS-2 insta kill full health squads not because is OP but for other reason.. The problem is not with the unit itself, but the AI of the ifantry. For some reason they like to bunch up and then coz IS2 has a splash dmg it kills them all. If Relic fixes the AI of the infantry to act as they should be this insta kill from the IS2 will go away.
Mines Rare but it does happen.
Mines should cost 40 muni, they do far more for what they cost now.
This is my two cents.
Happy New Year!
1 Jan 2014, 23:28 PM
#43
Posts: 6
i agree with your opinion 100%.All the things you have posted is accurate.
Happy New Year
Happy New Year
2 Jan 2014, 00:42 AM
#44
Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1
I'm not saying IL2 run is a weak ability because its not but it is a late game have nuke. Costs a lot so it really can be used once per game so it better does inflict so heavy damage. If you want to nerf it then change the cost as well and I will be OK with it. I don't rely on it to win games.
3v3 games are unbalanced by default so it will be used more but no ability shoul ever be balanced with 3v3 in mind because it's pointless and stupid idea. These games are for fun only.
You can't say its unbalanced, but it doesn't count because it only gets heavily exploited in 2v2+ games.
2 Jan 2014, 00:42 AM
#45
Posts: 1439
You dont play teamgames do you? In 2v2s and up you see it used frequently. Heck, I even used it 3 times during a 45 min game roughly 1 hour ago. You dont even have to dominate the field, you just dont use that many mollies. When 12 cps hit, you most likely got 400+ muni in the bank. Skillplane away.
As for sector, you can retreat out of it, but also, it can dish out ALOT more hurt. Have seen numerous examples in games I have played, and in replays. On choky areas it can totally waste the opponent if he is not carefull.
Why are teamgames relevant? Because the majority of the playerbase play teamgames. I dont say balance everything for 2v2 and up, because that would be very difficult, but to say that an ability is not used more than once is just not true when in teamgames they are.
I do play 2v2 the most actually.
As someone said if they change attack planes for both sides then I am ok with it. German one doesnt do this amount of damage but costs less. If they are considering some changes to the Soviet one I would like to see some price changes as well. I am ok with paying 240 for powerful abilities on both sides but I am not ok with paying 240 for a useless or not strong enough one. It only makes games more dynamic and entertaining with sudden turns when good late game ability can turn the tide of battle.
2 Jan 2014, 00:53 AM
#46
Posts: 135
if it didnt hunt the retreating units across the map it would help alot. if you dont retreat from the smoke and area that the strike is in you should have your army destroyed i agree. however, its almost impossible to get away from. especially the small maps. it is like OP said though, its not just this strike thats a problem in destroying whole german squads.
2 Jan 2014, 01:27 AM
#47
Posts: 1637
Cut Il2 Damage in half and its cost. The other units are fine. 120MM is a waste now really. Its alot easier to do more damage with two standard mortors now that its range rof accuracy cost and hangtime has all been nerfed. IS2 could lose some AOE if they want to make it cheaper.
I do agree overall that instagibs are no fun and would be fine if they removed it but raised other stats to balance it out overall.
I do agree overall that instagibs are no fun and would be fine if they removed it but raised other stats to balance it out overall.
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
2 Jan 2014, 06:10 AM
#48
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Heavy Strafing Run
For the strafe is fine the way it is, just lower the DMG so it can't completely kill squad on the first pass. You have your vet3 PG/Gren and they are gone in a instant is not fun.
120mm Mortar
I am ok with the DMG of this unit as its doing what should be. Problem I have with it is that some players abuse spam it and then it really hurts your infantry(MP). To kill it you need something with more DPS, PG, HT flame... Single grens are heaving trouble killing it fast enought before it retreats. So I don't know maybe reduce the HP by little or just leave it like that and just buff the germans.
Relic said the counter to this is the mortar halftrack with the incendiary barrage. In my eyes that is little expensive coz you need that fuel to get tanks, it will just slow your teching. For something that only cost MP.
KV-8
After the last nerf on the KV-8 I think is ok now. They dont insta kill squads like before, you can still faust it and retreat.
IS-2
IS-2 insta kill full health squads not because is OP but for other reason.. The problem is not with the unit itself, but the AI of the ifantry. For some reason they like to bunch up and then coz IS2 has a splash dmg it kills them all. If Relic fixes the AI of the infantry to act as they should be this insta kill from the IS2 will go away.
Mines Rare but it does happen.
Mines should cost 40 muni, they do far more for what they cost now.
This is my two cents.
Happy New Year!
+1
Minor adds:
-120mm: it´s fine, what its not fine is the Precision Strike. A normal damage shot should be fine, same with the 82mm mortar.
-IS2: i would cut a bit of AI for a bit more of AT or increase of ROF.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
2 Jan 2014, 09:47 AM
#49
Posts: 688
M5s are better because the rate of fire is higher and the Ostwind is slower unless is vet2
I remember reading something like that they both have the same chance of shoting down planes. But I think that is the chance of that weapon - per se - scoring a hit.
But as you write, the fire rate of the M5 quad is much higher, and I believe so is its turret turn rate.
In any case t is most definately my experience that it is much harder to down a plane with an Ostwind than a M5. And I use both quite a lot. It's not unusual in team games that I kill 3 or 4 planes.
That said, the OH has the AA advantage of having a small anti-air capability on all their tanks - contrary to the soviets. They rarely hit anything, though so it doesn't really matter.
Considering how much air is used in games these days, I feel the OH i missing some kind of AA. Like a 38mm emplacement for example.
'There's honour in victory, honour in defeat and honour in just staying alive'.
[Quote from Wings Reel]
[Quote from Wings Reel]
2 Jan 2014, 11:05 AM
#50
Posts: 419
The problem I see with the Ostwind is its slow turret turn rate. If it starts tracking a plane from far it has no problem, but tracking it rapidly and turning to fire takes a while. It usually takes 3 passes for an Ostwind to shoot something down.
2 Jan 2014, 14:30 PM
#51
Posts: 915
I have been complaining about the soviet abilities to gib units for a while. So many units/abilities can do it, its ridiculous.
2 Jan 2014, 14:51 PM
#52
Posts: 9
The ostwind is not a valid counter to the il-2. At this point in the metagame, the ostwind is negated hard by T34s and fast SU-85s... Building an ostwind is relegating yourself to defeat.
2 Jan 2014, 16:32 PM
#53
Posts: 208
IL-2: DON'T instantly retreat when you hear "AIR RAID!". Spread your infantry units in as many opposing directions as possible and then retreat.
What I've found is that if you just hit the retreat button on all your squads, the IL-2 will track a particular squad and nail all the others in it's path.
What I've found is that if you just hit the retreat button on all your squads, the IL-2 will track a particular squad and nail all the others in it's path.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us"
http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561197961759507
http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561197961759507
2 Jan 2014, 17:10 PM
#54
Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1
IL-2: DON'T instantly retreat when you hear "AIR RAID!". Spread your infantry units in as many opposing directions as possible and then retreat.
What I've found is that if you just hit the retreat button on all your squads, the IL-2 will track a particular squad and nail all the others in it's path.
If you do that then the squads will need to continue to walk around. At which point they will get picked off by the first path. I do agree though that bunched squads are always going to die, but you don't get to do this after the flairs come. You have to do it before.
I would consider reducing the cost to reduce the damage if that was an option.
I have had minor success using upgunned AC's to shoot down IL-2's since I almost never get an ostwind. If they miss though, they die since the plane targets them.
2 Jan 2014, 18:40 PM
#55
Posts: 208
If you do that then the squads will need to continue to walk around. At which point they will get picked off by the first path. I do agree though that bunched squads are always going to die, but you don't get to do this after the flairs come. You have to do it before.
I would consider reducing the cost to reduce the damage if that was an option.
I have had minor success using upgunned AC's to shoot down IL-2's since I almost never get an ostwind. If they miss though, they die since the plane targets them.
But 1 squad getting gibbed + a full retreat for 240 munis seems pretty fair to me.
I use Ostwinds and they shoot down IL-2's pretty consistently, never had luck with anything else shooting them down
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us"
http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561197961759507
http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561197961759507
2 Jan 2014, 18:48 PM
#56
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
If you have a tank on the zone just use it as meatshield for your retreating infantry.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
2 Jan 2014, 19:58 PM
#57
Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1
But 1 squad getting gibbed + a full retreat for 240 munis seems pretty fair to me.
I use Ostwinds and they shoot down IL-2's pretty consistently, never had luck with anything else shooting them down
In team games I often get 2 AC's upgunned as defacto AA guns, to save on fuel and pop cap. They work well on circling planes, which are the ones usually providing site for arty. Otherwise Precision strike with 203 is devastating.
If you use a tank as a meat shield it always kills the gunner and does pretty good damage to the tank. You have to be really careful about that.
2 Jan 2014, 22:14 PM
#58
Posts: 1595 | Subs: 2
I disagree with the majority of the suggestions as the root cause for asking for nerf is a game mechanic. Instantly wiping a squad is over powered and should be nerfed. Regardless of the side.
The views and opinions expressed in my posts and topics are solely those of the Napalm. These views and opinions do not necessarily represent those of Relic, the developers, The Angry Bears and/or any/all contributors to this site.
3 Jan 2014, 00:11 AM
#59
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
If you use a tank as a meat shield it always kills the gunner and does pretty good damage to the tank. You have to be really careful about that.
For avoiding the first run, i prefer a damaged tank that i can repair rather than losing squads/drain MP.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
3 Jan 2014, 00:13 AM
#60
Posts: 208
Like I said in the KV-8 post, COH is all about keeping your units alive, and there are so many abilities from the soviets that can completely wipe out a full healthy squad.
I disagree with the majority of the suggestions as the root cause for asking for nerf is a game mechanic. Instantly wiping a squad is over powered and should be nerfed. Regardless of the side.
Insta-gibbing has always been the most satisfying aspect of CoH!
Goliaths
105 on map and off map
Airborne strafe
V1
PE booby traps
Teller mines
Pershing/Tiger
Stuka rockets
etc
If anything the Stuka strafe could do with a bit of a buff and I don't think anyone would argue against that
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us"
http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561197961759507
http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561197961759507
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