Wow, people honestly think Guards are bad.
I give up.
Guard
29 Dec 2013, 19:02 PM
#21
Posts: 409
29 Dec 2013, 19:15 PM
#22
Posts: 1637
Wow, people honestly think Guards are bad.
I give up.
The economics arent there. For 360 mp and the upkeep/reinforcement/enemy xp value they just arent worth it.
Think about it. Since ptrs are the last models to drop they literally work just like vanilla grens for ai.
Then to add insult to injury you need to spend 100 muni for the first button that is far far to easy to cancel. Then even at full duration with soviet at guns rof thats maybe 1 exrra hit in for 100 muni.
If guards were either cheaper to use ie reinforce/muni for upgrades button was more reliable or they had the exact same impact as the lmg42 they might be good. Now they are a very very expensive and highly situational support unit.
I would even prefer ptrs as a paid upgrade so they at least gun down lmg grens ffs.
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
29 Dec 2013, 19:29 PM
#23
Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1
If you are having trouble with guards you are not using them correctly.
Button is one ability in a list of pro's that guards bring to the table.
Pro tip, if you are fighting lmg grens go with shocks, he has no munitions for flame HT.
Button is one ability in a list of pro's that guards bring to the table.
Pro tip, if you are fighting lmg grens go with shocks, he has no munitions for flame HT.
29 Dec 2013, 19:44 PM
#24
Posts: 1637
Lol ok thanks for the pro tip. Now point me at the doctrine that has both STs and Guards.
Can you even see your hand in front of your face when you are surronded by all that bias?
Again button is far to expensive to be the only thing a 360 mp unit can bring to the table. If this wss their point they should have targer weakpoint nit button. Something that cannot be interupted. Or they need a buff somewhere else or a price decrease. Guards are in a price catrgory of elite infantry but in most cases arent as useful as conscripts.
360MP large vet requirement due to cost 100 muni and a high reinforce i would expect much more than a gimped vet 1 german ability....
Can you even see your hand in front of your face when you are surronded by all that bias?
Again button is far to expensive to be the only thing a 360 mp unit can bring to the table. If this wss their point they should have targer weakpoint nit button. Something that cannot be interupted. Or they need a buff somewhere else or a price decrease. Guards are in a price catrgory of elite infantry but in most cases arent as useful as conscripts.
360MP large vet requirement due to cost 100 muni and a high reinforce i would expect much more than a gimped vet 1 german ability....
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
29 Dec 2013, 19:47 PM
#25
Posts: 1554 | Subs: 7
I face Guards in every single game now (especially 2vs2) in which it occurs that my opponents spam 2-3 squads. They aren't as bad and situational as JHeartless depicts them.
And btw: Use your Guards together with snipers or AT-guns/T34-85 in order to establish a effective force.
And btw: Use your Guards together with snipers or AT-guns/T34-85 in order to establish a effective force.
"Nullum magnum ingenium sine mixtura dementiae fuit." - Lucius Annaeus Seneca
29 Dec 2013, 20:06 PM
#26
Posts: 1637
I simply do not think they are good for cost. Yes do pair them with a sniper and they can counter either a single 240 mp 60 muni lmg gren or a 360 mp ai pgren with perhaps a vanilla gren 240 mp thrown in there.
So thats 720 mp and 60 muni to counter either
480 mp 60 muni or
600 MP
As i said above the econmoics arent there they severly underperform for coooost.
So thats 720 mp and 60 muni to counter either
480 mp 60 muni or
600 MP
As i said above the econmoics arent there they severly underperform for coooost.
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
29 Dec 2013, 20:42 PM
#27
Posts: 308
Guards are great, everything about them are great besides one thing. Which is the DP-28. It's extremely weak, it should have the same DPS as the Gren LMG since they are the same cost.
I know it comes with 2 DP-28s
But those 2 DP-28s should equal the DPS of the Gren LMG
I know it comes with 2 DP-28s
But those 2 DP-28s should equal the DPS of the Gren LMG
29 Dec 2013, 21:01 PM
#28
Posts: 1637
Guards are great, everything about them are great besides one thing. Which is the DP-28. It's extremely weak, it should have the same DPS as the Gren LMG since they are the same cost.
I know it comes with 2 DP-28s
But those 2 DP-28s should equal the DPS of the Gren LMG
Even if they did it would only work in a garrison since there are two of them and the run for cover or random move over here squad ai with 6 men. Like what happens now they are constantly reaiming and in setup.
I am shocked that anyone in thier right mind would rhink Guards are great at 360 mp. 50% more manpower for the combat performance vanilla grens with no faust. If they had better pen and could plink away at hevies then maybe. At duties are better and cheaper with the light at gun and ppsh conscripts even have better ai so this only leaves them with buggy old expensive button.
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
29 Dec 2013, 23:05 PM
#29
Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1
Lol ok thanks for the pro tip. Now point me at the doctrine that has both STs and Guards.
Can you even see your hand in front of your face when you are surronded by all that bias?
Again button is far to expensive to be the only thing a 360 mp unit can bring to the table. If this wss their point they should have targer weakpoint nit button. Something that cannot be interupted. Or they need a buff somewhere else or a price decrease. Guards are in a price catrgory of elite infantry but in most cases arent as useful as conscripts.
360MP large vet requirement due to cost 100 muni and a high reinforce i would expect much more than a gimped vet 1 german ability....
I don't have to point you to one doc. You get to pick one that's the point. Guards and shocks are so good you have to pick one. You still did not explain why if you saw lots of lmg grens you went with guards. Guards are good at many things, but not great at any one. Shocks are great at AI. If you are fighting inf then don't complain guards aren't perfect.
29 Dec 2013, 23:11 PM
#30
Posts: 1637
I don't have to point you to one doc. You get to pick one that's the point. Guards and shocks are so good you have to pick one. You still did not explain why if you saw lots of lmg grens you went with guards. Guards are good at many things, but not great at any one. Shocks are great at AI. If you are fighting inf then don't complain guards aren't perfect.
See how you just did chicken in the egg there...
Once guards are seen THEN the lmgs tend to come out. And now you have no counters. Just like the flameht comes out after the shocks hit the field. So your prior arguement is only valid if i have acess to bith sts and guards. Me i like to remove shrek squads more than crappy ass button so i tend ro go sts.
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
30 Dec 2013, 01:13 AM
#31
Posts: 1042
I've seen guards clump up together and be killed by a single rifle grenade... not impressed.
30 Dec 2013, 03:03 AM
#32
Posts: 928
Back off
The Soviet Fanboys are here.
The Soviet Fanboys are here.
Had fun doing this earlier
30 Dec 2013, 05:50 AM
#33
Posts: 2561
Back off
The Soviet Fanboys are here.
Have you made a post yet that doesn't include the word fanboy?
30 Dec 2013, 06:14 AM
#34
Posts: 409
I've seen guards clump up together and be killed by a single rifle grenade... not impressed.
This is not an indication of anything. Any squad in this game can bunch up and be killed by a single nade.
30 Dec 2013, 06:41 AM
#35
Posts: 928
Have you made a post yet that doesn't include the word fanboy?
Is there something wrong with calling a spade a spade?
Ever since Nullist left, this has been happening more and more and somebody's got to call it out.
And just so you know, my first 430 posts didn't even contain the word fanboy. Selective memory is a great tool to use no?
Had fun doing this earlier
30 Dec 2013, 08:32 AM
#36
Posts: 4928
I've seen guards clump up together and be killed by a single rifle grenade... not impressed.
Can happen to any squad. Lets ignore the fact that Germans have smaller squads while Soviets have stronger nades. We know very often how bad it feels to get a squad 'nade wiped.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
30 Dec 2013, 11:36 AM
#37
Posts: 1003
Soviets have stronger nades.
Not true.
Guards are fine, that are now.
I want to have the same chance, to win for each side.
30 Dec 2013, 13:11 PM
#38
Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1
See how you just did chicken in the egg there...
Once guards are seen THEN the lmgs tend to come out. And now you have no counters. Just like the flameht comes out after the shocks hit the field. So your prior arguement is only valid if i have acess to bith sts and guards. Me i like to remove shrek squads more than crappy ass button so i tend ro go sts.
If he is floating munitions then you don't need elite troops because you can beat him with vanilla units. Continue to execute your strategy without selecting if you wish. My point is only that if you see lots of lmg grens (which by the way guards can easily win against, just pretend to throw a grenade and grens have to keep moving, lmg = useless) then go shocks. If you see 1 lmg gren squad, then that is no real threat. Just make sure you are in cover when you engage it and force it off the field first by targeting with as many units as possible.
If you consistently struggle against inf choose shocks, if you need to quickly destroy light vehicles choose guards. If you plan on using lots of T34's I would also choose guards.
You don't understand how good guards are so you attack me. I can tell you from experience, if you learn to use the unit fully it will not disappoint you.
I also want to make clear, yes button is 40 munitions per use (in a munitions light faction), but unlike shreks for the Soviet the Ost player never knows when you are going to do it. Therefore, you can drop it whenever you fine it most helpful and at critical moments in battle. The shreks are obvious once you see them you know he is going after your tanks. Guards are a thinking man's unit, and the ability to stop a tank for 40 munitions and allow you to get 1 or 2 more shots off is killer. It also requires the tank to accelerate from a stop, making it slow even after.
Everyone agrees Soviets float munitions but as soon as someone says "You gotta keep using them to stop tanks dead", everybody else goes "Oh I don't have the munitions for that". Seriously, you have the munitions, you are playing Soviet.
30 Dec 2013, 14:28 PM
#39
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Not true.
Guards are fine, that are now.
Actually, wasnt the guard nade the most effective one, followed up by the PG and then the Shock one?
Guards n shocks are fine, their arrival at 1CP not.
Gren LMG shooting > Still Gren > Nade target.
If he moves, cancel the nade. He loses DPS. PROFIT
If he doesnt move, possible squad wipe. PROFIT.
Depending on doctrine, i can always fill up a DP on all the guards. AND its a unit that i wont like to have more than 2 unless i go sniper spam.
Q: does the PTRS do damage to infantry? Which is the % chance to crit on infantry?
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
30 Dec 2013, 22:30 PM
#40
Posts: 1637
It was until the nerf. Now its about equal to the shocks with a slower animation. To my knowledge PTRS does no damage to infantry which is why its so easy to snipe abwhole squad if charging guards...you only need worry about 4 models.
Yes nades as listed in my previous posts guards require that you dump muni into them for rhem ro be of any real use. Nade 45 muni for possiboe rng kills. Button 100 muni for something that as listed above is easily cancelled. Guards are bar none the worst elite infantry because all they do RELIABLY is counter lighr vehicles. Barring that they do norhing else that i cannot do cheaper and better wirh something much cheaper. Personally to me engine damage us much better and much cheaper than button.
On the gren sitting still i can accomplish the same with molo a shock nade or even a satchel. So again not bringing anything to the table. The are a jack of no trades that cost more to employ than any other soviet infantry. Glad you all dont mind blowing all your resources for little in return but me i prefer more bang for my buck.
Yes nades as listed in my previous posts guards require that you dump muni into them for rhem ro be of any real use. Nade 45 muni for possiboe rng kills. Button 100 muni for something that as listed above is easily cancelled. Guards are bar none the worst elite infantry because all they do RELIABLY is counter lighr vehicles. Barring that they do norhing else that i cannot do cheaper and better wirh something much cheaper. Personally to me engine damage us much better and much cheaper than button.
On the gren sitting still i can accomplish the same with molo a shock nade or even a satchel. So again not bringing anything to the table. The are a jack of no trades that cost more to employ than any other soviet infantry. Glad you all dont mind blowing all your resources for little in return but me i prefer more bang for my buck.
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
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