In my opinion one of the guards useless units in the game:
- poorly against infantry - thanks to DP-27, they crawl on the ground and do not shoot
- poorly against tanks, panzer grenadiers need 8 hits from Shrek to destroy ISU-152 as needed shots that Guardsmen would destroy Panther / Tiger / Elephant - 100? 200?
- Guardsmen doctrine and so many good commanders are not used.
Guards need to be revised
Guard
25 Dec 2013, 20:09 PM
#1
Posts: 2184 | Subs: 2
25 Dec 2013, 20:18 PM
#2
Posts: 410
They are meant to kill T2 vehicles and button T3 and T4 Tanks. Shreks cost munitions while guards don't.
In my oppinion, they could be a bit stronger against infantry.
In my oppinion, they could be a bit stronger against infantry.
25 Dec 2013, 20:22 PM
#3
Posts: 35
Guards are 1 cp, so there is no tech required to get them. They are light at, and therefore suppossed to deal with light vehicles. Against t3+ they are just a softcounter and need to hit the rear armor. They do not cost ANY munitions, but are still able to support heavier at units via the button ability. The Guards grenade is actually quite good.
In conclusion: You have no idea what you are talking about, wanting cheap guards to stand up to the most highly armored late game units.
In conclusion: You have no idea what you are talking about, wanting cheap guards to stand up to the most highly armored late game units.
25 Dec 2013, 20:32 PM
#4
Posts: 604
They are very survivable (1.5 times as much as Conscripts), acceptable vs. infantry (slightly stronger than Conscripts even without the DP upgrade, 1.5 times as strong with DP) and their grenades allow them to beat back approaching short range infantry.
They are very good vs. T2 vehicles, their AT rifles deal more damage against German T3 units than you'd expect plus they can button them, creating high synergy with any AT unit.
They really don't need a buff. They are not supposed to be infantry hard counters, it is the job of Shocks and Penals.
They are very good vs. T2 vehicles, their AT rifles deal more damage against German T3 units than you'd expect plus they can button them, creating high synergy with any AT unit.
They really don't need a buff. They are not supposed to be infantry hard counters, it is the job of Shocks and Penals.
25 Dec 2013, 20:52 PM
#5
Posts: 1468 | Subs: 4
Guards are probably the best infantry in the game... if you think they're useless you're probably just using them wrong :/
25 Dec 2013, 21:03 PM
#6
Posts: 222
Guards` nade is really good. DP LMGs are underwhelming though, you basically just pay to unlock the button ability.
When it comes to dealing with light vehicles in most cases I would much prefer 45mm AT guns but these unfortunately don`t come with any particularly good commanders (unlike Guards).
When it comes to dealing with light vehicles in most cases I would much prefer 45mm AT guns but these unfortunately don`t come with any particularly good commanders (unlike Guards).
25 Dec 2013, 21:31 PM
#7
Posts: 107
guards + mark target = bad ass.
more over i wonder how long will take till we see some
snipers & guards + mark target only strat to max abuse.
i played in 2v2 once, with an ally using this strat, he took down p4s / ostwinds and bunkers with guards only
more over i wonder how long will take till we see some
snipers & guards + mark target only strat to max abuse.
i played in 2v2 once, with an ally using this strat, he took down p4s / ostwinds and bunkers with guards only
25 Dec 2013, 21:53 PM
#8
Posts: 76
I am pretty sure that guards as T3+ AT is just or more munitions intensive as Shrek Pgreens. You have to get 60 muni upgrade and to use button 1 time its another 60 muni (I think.. right?).
I think their AT capabilities are at a good place now, however I don't see a reason for them to be so underwhelming at AI. They aren't any cheaper than pgrens.
I think their AT capabilities are at a good place now, however I don't see a reason for them to be so underwhelming at AI. They aren't any cheaper than pgrens.
25 Dec 2013, 21:55 PM
#9
Posts: 3552 | Subs: 2
They are so good I am forcing myself to not use them to explore other builds.
Button stops armour dead so Zis, Tanks and SUs can kill it.
Button stops armour dead so Zis, Tanks and SUs can kill it.
Resident Soviet Whiner and Grand Master Bias Jedi; General Secretary of the Soviet Whine Hydra Collective; Axis Hating Sheeple; Allied Butt Buddy! Collect Them All!
Also the African Branch of TAB Bulletins
PS: The Italian Army fought with courage and skill
Also the African Branch of TAB Bulletins
PS: The Italian Army fought with courage and skill
25 Dec 2013, 22:09 PM
#10
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
Guards are good units but they burn through munitions faster than any other unit in the game. They require DPlmgs (60m) to properly deal with vanilla grens, and need grenades (45m per use) when dealing with lmg42 grenadiers or panzergrenadiers. To be of any significance against vehicles they need to use Button, which is another 40 munitions per use.
Overall the guards are solid units, they aren't bad by any means, but they are also not as good as some people here in this thread claim them to be. Guards can deal with anything, but at a great cost.
Overall the guards are solid units, they aren't bad by any means, but they are also not as good as some people here in this thread claim them to be. Guards can deal with anything, but at a great cost.
25 Dec 2013, 22:11 PM
#11
Posts: 3552 | Subs: 2
Certainly they are muntions heavy, however I usually play 3v3 and 4v4 so munitions tends not to be an issue
Resident Soviet Whiner and Grand Master Bias Jedi; General Secretary of the Soviet Whine Hydra Collective; Axis Hating Sheeple; Allied Butt Buddy! Collect Them All!
Also the African Branch of TAB Bulletins
PS: The Italian Army fought with courage and skill
Also the African Branch of TAB Bulletins
PS: The Italian Army fought with courage and skill
25 Dec 2013, 23:32 PM
#12
Posts: 258
They are pretty bad at vet0 and vet1 but vet2 or vet3 squad upgraded with dp-28 does great amount of damage to infantry. But they are very vulnerable to rifle grenades.
Regarding guards and snipers , get 1conscript and 2 snipers and then 3 guards with dp-28. Then get 2 su76 and 1-2 munition caches to float muni for late game and wait for your call-ins(I like the isu-152). The point is to not get into open engagements and using indirect fire and snipers to bleed out your opponent. Guards are there just to guard your assault guns and snipers from flanking german tanks, buttoning them. Also focus on muni points because even 2 caches are not always enough
Regarding guards and snipers , get 1conscript and 2 snipers and then 3 guards with dp-28. Then get 2 su76 and 1-2 munition caches to float muni for late game and wait for your call-ins(I like the isu-152). The point is to not get into open engagements and using indirect fire and snipers to bleed out your opponent. Guards are there just to guard your assault guns and snipers from flanking german tanks, buttoning them. Also focus on muni points because even 2 caches are not always enough
26 Dec 2013, 17:34 PM
#13
Posts: 1554 | Subs: 7
Guards are in a decent place now, no changes whatsoever required.
However they are used as backbone unit these days which is just lol because they should be supporting your army.
It's not that nice to see 4 guards squads emerging from the FoW...
However they are used as backbone unit these days which is just lol because they should be supporting your army.
It's not that nice to see 4 guards squads emerging from the FoW...
"Nullum magnum ingenium sine mixtura dementiae fuit." - Lucius Annaeus Seneca
26 Dec 2013, 20:03 PM
#14
7 Posts: 1664
In my opinion one of the guards useless units in the game:
- poorly against infantry - thanks to DP-27, they crawl on the ground and do not shoot
- poorly against tanks, panzer grenadiers need 8 hits from Shrek to destroy ISU-152 as needed shots that Guardsmen would destroy Panther / Tiger / Elephant - 100? 200?
- Guardsmen doctrine and so many good commanders are not used.
Guards need to be revised
- consider not upgrading them with DP's if you want them to remain a bit more mobile. Also keep in mind DP's and LMG42's don't need to go prone if the unit is in cover, they will fire while standing.
- Mark target will greatly increase the dmg from Guards against tanks, but as stated before Guards are a SOFT counter.
- I'm pretty sure Guards Motor is the best Soviet doctrine and I see it used quite a bit.
I made a thread a week or two ago and here's an excerpt:
- PTRS rifles as a munitions upgrade on Guards.
Putting Guards in a more flexible role in line with Panzergrenadiers, they would spawn as a much more mobile unit. This may tread on Penal's territory but I think Penals access to great shock weapons in the flamethrower and satchel charges and their lack of armor sets them apart from the Guards.
26 Dec 2013, 21:27 PM
#15
Posts: 337
I thought this would be a thread on how Guards are OP. Haha, nvm.
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26 Dec 2013, 22:36 PM
#16
Posts: 1003
Only Shock Troops have now power versus german infantry. Guards are AT joke and weak versus infantry. Penals are bood,m but if enemy have G43, then have no chance.
I want to have the same chance, to win for each side.
27 Dec 2013, 07:15 AM
#17
Posts: 409
I thought this would be a thread on how Guards are OP. Haha, nvm.
Ditto.
29 Dec 2013, 13:28 PM
#18
Posts: 22
I thought this would be a thread on how Guards are OP. Haha, nvm.
I think people want Guards to be Tactical Space Marines. Maybe we could change the DP upgrade to Bolters?
29 Dec 2013, 17:05 PM
#19
Posts: 1637
Guards are a discrace. A total and complete manpower sink. What your basically paying for is a vanilla gren squad that can cause light vehicle damage foe no muni cost.
People like to sau how survivable they are. If they actually coukd di something to infantry with that survivability tjat would be nice. But ptrs do nothing to infantry so count them as mirrors to 4 man gren squads that have a more expensive reinforce.
The only way to kill infantry effectivly is to purchase their rng deaths by paying 45 muni. The only time i am like wow glad i have guards is if there is a flame ht.
Button is a slap in the face for cost. 9/10 times it is not up for the full duration because the idiot entity buttoning moves on his own or is forced to move or loses los or the vehicle moves out of range etc etc. The lmg itself in practice does very little dps again because of the constant moving of 6 man squads.
Personally i am more satisfied with conscripts penals and shocks for cost. Guards only real roll seems to be feeding pgrens and lmg grens vet and causing the soviet player to bleed manpower.
People like to sau how survivable they are. If they actually coukd di something to infantry with that survivability tjat would be nice. But ptrs do nothing to infantry so count them as mirrors to 4 man gren squads that have a more expensive reinforce.
The only way to kill infantry effectivly is to purchase their rng deaths by paying 45 muni. The only time i am like wow glad i have guards is if there is a flame ht.
Button is a slap in the face for cost. 9/10 times it is not up for the full duration because the idiot entity buttoning moves on his own or is forced to move or loses los or the vehicle moves out of range etc etc. The lmg itself in practice does very little dps again because of the constant moving of 6 man squads.
Personally i am more satisfied with conscripts penals and shocks for cost. Guards only real roll seems to be feeding pgrens and lmg grens vet and causing the soviet player to bleed manpower.
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
29 Dec 2013, 17:38 PM
#20
Posts: 2184 | Subs: 2
JHeartless, I agree with you.
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