Stug III e needs some love

Im not going to defend the performance of the stug IIIe but when comparing to T70 you also need to factor in tech-cost. You can build the StugIIIe without teching at all, it will then be alot cheaper than the t70. Still, for ostheer not to tech at all seems like kind of a horrible idea, so the "lower" cost is really not really there.

i think the only reason why the stug III e is in the game is that relic heard players want new units, so they just shoved in a new one from ToW because for some reason they don't want to make any more new tanks.

it will be much better if it was replayed with a stuh, which was in action in stalingrad after all.

Im not going to defend the performance of the stug IIIe but when comparing to T70 you also need to factor in tech-cost. You can build the StugIIIe without teching at all, it will then be alot cheaper than the t70. Still, for ostheer not to tech at all seems like kind of a horrible idea, so the "lower" cost is really not really there.

i know ppl will bring that building cost, but this unit is call in unit. if follow your logic all call in unit should be weaker compare to building units with similar price. is that truth?

guards, penal cost the same, guard is call in since it don't need tech does it weaker than penal? no..

shocks and pgren, shocks cost little less if u count Pgren need tech. does shocks lose to 1v1 fight with pgren? no... ppl might bring shocks cost more than pgren per unit with out think about tech and building, then that is my point, Stug 3E shouldn't under-performance compare to same cost unit.

mortar HT cost 120mp 30FU almost same cost as building mortar team, Mortar HT don't need building either does it sucks compare to Mortar team? no..

T34/85 is little bit more expansive than T34/76 but since T34/85 don't need building it is actually little cheaper, does it bad compare to t34/76? no....

so far i don't see any call in unit is weaker compare to similar price building unit in the entire game except this one. so i don't think "it don't need tech and build so it should suck" is a valid excuse for this unit under perform than similar cost unit

in fact some call in units is very strong for its price compare to building units

KV8 for example, it have similar cost of Panzer 4 and its counter part is Brummbar. Brummbar and KV8 are both AI tank, so KV8 should be weaker in AI than Brummbar right? actually no, KV8 have better HP, better Armor than Brummbar and it eats infantry squads like snacks. can the more expansive and need tech tank, Brummbar do the same? no it can't. how about compare to Ostwind? KV8 on its price is just little more expansive than Ostwind and Ostwind need building and tech. does KV8 perform crap compare to Ostwind? no, it beat Ostwind in all area except the mobility (Ostwind top speed 5 vs KV8's 4.8)

so building cost and tech price really shouldn't consider for the reason why this unit should suck because this is the only call in unit sucks for its price to be a call in

If you managed to vet a stug E up it's accuracy increases a ton. I've had vetted stug E's sniping vet 3 guard squads while hardly missing at all.

If they want a counterpart to the T-70, why didn't they give us a Panzer III?

I want a Panzer III...

The Stug III e is like a cheap whore. It's cheap but whorible.

If they want a counterpart to the T-70, why didn't they give us a Panzer III?

I want a Panzer III...

I like that, germans are really missing light armor recon!!!But only if its equivalent to a t70 and not a glorified scout car

If they want a counterpart to the T-70, why didn't they give us a Panzer III?

I want a Panzer III...

+1
i am with you man

i searched for a thread about stug III E after having trouble to get what is it good for.
i am glad i am not the only one
some ideas though:
1) maybe it is good against inf in buildings? someone tried?
2) you need to put this unit in the context of the entire commander.
if you can somehow utilize this unit in a way that allows you to skip a tier? for example like AGs can be used to skip T1.
for example if you plan not getting t3&t4, you will still be able to call this unit to support your tiger.
3) if you have lots of fuel but low on MP you can call it, i think 3 is the magic number in terms of AI killing power.

i searched for a thread about stug III E after having trouble to get what is it good for.
i am glad i am not the only one
some ideas though:
1) maybe it is good against inf in buildings? someone tried?
2) you need to put this unit in the context of the entire commander.
if you can somehow utilize this unit in a way that allows you to skip a tier? for example like AGs can be used to skip T1.
for example if you plan not getting t3&t4, you will still be able to call this unit to support your tiger.
3) if you have lots of fuel but low on MP you can call it, i think 3 is the magic number in terms of AI killing power.

1） so far i don't see it is effective to garrison troops, in fact i felt it is weaker to garrison troops than Stug 3G or P4, it is better than T70 or Ostwind on buildings that is about it

2）i don't felt this unit can help you skip a tire building because this commander is really weak on AT ability, i actually don't think using Agren and skip T1 is a good choice because Agren really have 0 AT ability, and its med range battles sucks ass, their nades is fire crackers with out any other infantry support 2 grouped conscripts stop move and start firing at Agren troops the second they saw agren can really droping Agrens pretty fast as agren try to charge close to them. and M3+flamer is perfect counter to Agren.

now back to topic, if u want use Stug 3E to skip T2 is impossible, because agren + stug 3E = 0 AT ability, once enemy roll out a T70 or T34 it is death sentence for you. if want to skip T3 it will be a struggle because you need depend on AT and pgren to hold off enemy armor until you get to T4

3) yes 3 is magic number for this unit to start kill infantry fast. but remember if enemy have AT guns, T34, SU76 or SU85 they are all deadly to stug 3E (2 shots from AT or SU85 with 100% penetration, 2-3 shots from T34 and 3-5 shots from SU76). and Stug 3E's range is kind short compare to those units and can only scratch those units. and as a support unit it can't fight its own (i lost a stug 3E to a guard + conscript once, just got cripple by AT nade then guard single handily killed it and my stug 3E the "AI tank" couldn't kill that guard squad before got kill by it)
also 3 stug 3E = 1.5 Panzer or Ostwind. i could rather have 1 stug 3E and a P4 to have a unit to counter the T34 or T70 and flanking unit to enemy SU85

It's not thaaaaaat bad, when you consider it comes at 6 CP.

AGs are best with T1 for some grens also, then it doesn't take you long to call 1-2 of these and then onto a tiger.


Of course, if you do prefer to go for T3, then your not going to call one.


The StuH will probably come later in a storm trooper doctrine. ToW isn't up to Stallingrad yet.

i know ppl will bring that building cost, but this unit is call in unit. if follow your logic all call in unit should be weaker compare to building units with similar price. is that truth?

Nope. Actually you put the finger on it yourself a number of times in your own argument:

shocks and pgren, shocks cost little less if u count Pgren need tech. does shocks lose to 1v1 fight with pgren?

mortar HT cost 120mp 30FU almost same cost as building mortar team, Mortar HT don't need building either does it sucks compare to Mortar team?

T34/85 is little bit more expansive than T34/76 but since T34/85 don't need building it is actually little cheaper

The first callin will most likely be equal in cost (more or less) to the equivalent with tech. The tech one will perform worse, yes. But consider this. When you keep calling in the 2nd, or even 3rd mortarHT. It will be alot more expensive than building a 2nd or 3rd mortar. Same with pgrens vs shocks. About T34/85s you cant call them in one by one, and sometimes you need one tank out to deal with something. Spamming callins and they will get more expensive than equivalent unit with normal tech. Because the more "tech" units you build the more units you can spread out your tech cost on. This could also be a sort of defense to why callins can perform better than the equivalent tech unit.

Now, as I said this is in no defense of the StugIIIe. It may underperform for its price, but as it also tries to fill a gap in the ostheer techtree its kind of hard to figure out how effective it should be. I have put it to some use, so Im not that unhappy. A slight(! (say rof)) boost to AI and I would be happy with it for that price. However getting a StuH for that price and at that CP? I think that would be really bad. Keep the StugIIIe backline and it can provide snipes.

I agree that this unit is crap.

Give it a modest ability of some sort, why not ONE of these?

* It's an assault gun - give it a small bonus versus garrisoned troops

* Let it have a MG upgrade like other tanks

* Give it the ability where it can 'dig in'

* Let it, at Vet 1, capture points like Sov vehicles

* Give it that 'tank shock' ability Churchills had in VCoH.

The Stug IIIe should be the SU76 counterpart. If you rely on infantry heavy tactics and you need to clear guns or emplacements, this should be the go to vehicle.

I don't mind giving it bonuses vs. garrisoned troops, but that seems like a limited upgrade.

It should have an LMG upgrade.

Dig in or hull down would not fit this units role well nor would allowing it to cap points.

Soviet vehicles can operate independently of troops, which is why they have the cap. Stugs simply cannot.

Finally giving it shock is not a great idea since it has low health. Churchills could use the shock because they could soak up damage while squishing everything in sight.

To make it better fit the roll of close artillery support, first increase the price. Make the shells have larger AOE, potentially offer a bombard area as a vet ability (or as a default ability), give it longer range, and a little more health so it can survive for slightly longer. It should still suck against vehicles, and should rely on infantry to operate properly.

Target weak point but vs buildings, that destroys them in one hit, for say, 45 muni. Also definitely needs and AOE buff and a health buff.

The Stug IIIe should be the SU76 counterpart. If you rely on infantry heavy tactics and you need to clear guns or emplacements, this should be the go to vehicle.

It should have an LMG upgrade.

Very good suggestions imo.

The Stug IIIe should be the SU76 counterpart. If you rely on infantry heavy tactics and you need to clear guns or emplacements, this should be the go to vehicle.

I thought the StuG III G was supposed to be the counterpart to the SU-76? Unless you're suggesting upping penetration and giving free barrage to the E, I can't see how it could really serve as a 'counterpart' when it doesn't do anything in common.

The problem is that the SU-76 isn't all that bad versus armor whereas the StuG III e can't even penetrate my girlfriend. The III e's role was infantry support and therefore, I think it should receive either more health so it can soak up a little more damage or be buffed against infantry. As a vehicle supporting your infantry, it's unacceptable that it can be destroyed by AT nades + guards, in my humble opinion that is.

You know, I wouldn't actually be opposed to free barrages for the StuG E. Ost lacks any form of artillery support between T2 Mortars and T4 Panzerwerfer. Any artillery support, doctrine or otherwise, it welcome by me. Besides, doesn't "Sturmgeschütz" translate to "Assault Artillery", designed with the sole purpose of providing direct artillery to Infantry (with later models (like the G) used as tank destroyers)?

You know, I wouldn't actually be opposed to free barrages for the StuG E. Ost lacks any form of artillery support between T2 Mortars and T4 Panzerwerfer. Any artillery support, doctrine or otherwise, it welcome by me. Besides, doesn't "Sturmgeschütz" translate to "Assault Artillery", designed with the sole purpose of providing direct artillery to Infantry (with later models (like the G) used as tank destroyers)?

Great idea, the problem is the E model comes with only one commander :/