MG42's DO work against Shocks, you just need to remember to spot for them. They won't work if you have your MG at the frontline. Incendiary/AP rounds when it gets vet 1 absolutely decimate them also.
When I see 1+ Shock squads I get a FHT ASAP
Supported LMG grens also work, snipers too as people have mentioned
I've been using the P4 command tank recently which also works very well
Shocktroops at 1CP
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3 Jan 2014, 21:13 PM
#221
Posts: 208
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us"
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4 Jan 2014, 00:26 AM
#222
Posts: 9
In top level 1v1, snipers are next to impossible to kill. I suggest getting LMGs on all your grens instead of rushing to a FHT. LMG grens trade very cost-effectively with Shocks, considering their reinforcement costs differences.
I'm sorry but you're just wrong. I had a recent match where I had 2 vet 3 LMG grens and 1 regular vet 3 gren vs 1 vet 2 shock troop and the grens were forced to retreat. They are, in no way, an answer to shocks. The shock troops armor is far too high.
4 Jan 2014, 01:06 AM
#223
Posts: 337
I'm sorry but you're just wrong. I had a recent match where I had 2 vet 3 LMG grens and 1 regular vet 3 gren vs 1 vet 2 shock troop and the grens were forced to retreat. They are, in no way, an answer to shocks. The shock troops armor is far too high.
Please provide a video of that engagement. I find that extremely hard to believe that 3 squads of grens with higher vet would lose to a single squad. Even 2 LMG grens will beat 1 Shock every time, unless you eat a nade in the face.
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4 Jan 2014, 01:23 AM
#224
Posts: 210
Please provide a video of that engagement. I find that extremely hard to believe that 3 squads of grens with higher vet would lose to a single squad. Even 2 LMG grens will beat 1 Shock every time, unless you eat a nade in the face.
+1
4 Jan 2014, 02:39 AM
#225
Posts: 236
I have the biggest challenge of dealing with shocks + guards + snipers in clown cars. This early combo is crazy difficult to beat in 2v2s. Their snipers in clown cars guarded by shocks and guards make it so hard to cap anything especially to get enough fuel to bring out heavier tanks.
4 Jan 2014, 04:46 AM
#226
Posts: 337
Relic, please fix the sniper bug soon!
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4 Jan 2014, 04:54 AM
#227
Posts: 135
please fix shocks at 1cp soon. does anyone even know if they are planning to? they come out way too early right now. its a pretty big problem.
4 Jan 2014, 11:08 AM
#228
Posts: 647
I think 2.25 armour is way too much for an infantry man, apart from that they are actually okay. snipers will bleed them and they have no anti vehicle power. the real problem i see is that small arms fire do too much towards light armour like halftracks and armoured cars.
but the way ppsh firing animation irks me though, they shoot them like rifles. could do with longer bursts and some tracers to make them feel like they were showering the enemy positions with bullets rather than accurate rifle fire.
but the way ppsh firing animation irks me though, they shoot them like rifles. could do with longer bursts and some tracers to make them feel like they were showering the enemy positions with bullets rather than accurate rifle fire.
5 Jan 2014, 14:53 PM
#229
Posts: 747
I think 2.25 armour is way too much for an infantry man, apart from that they are actually okay. snipers will bleed them and they have no anti vehicle power. the real problem i see is that small arms fire do too much towards light armour like halftracks and armoured cars.
but the way ppsh firing animation irks me though, they shoot them like rifles. could do with longer bursts and some tracers to make them feel like they were showering the enemy positions with bullets rather than accurate rifle fire.
I think 2.25 armor is ok provided they come out at 2cp. I do agree that the german t2 vehicle's vulnearability to small arms is too high.
5 Jan 2014, 15:17 PM
#230
Posts: 503
Permanently BannedI with tiger ace OP and boom in the midle of 6 guys of shock troops, only 1 die, when you have a infantry that survive it, you need alien tecnology to win too...
5 Jan 2014, 18:59 PM
#231
Posts: 135
I with tiger ace OP and boom in the midle of 6 guys of shock troops, only 1 die, when you have a infantry that survive it, you need alien tecnology to win too...
yea germans should get Hanabu strafes at 0 cp to counter shocks. seriously though, shocks NEEDS to be changed. i dont see how anyone can think this is balanced right now.
6 Jan 2014, 09:46 AM
#232
Posts: 688
The claim that 1 CP is too early might be true or not. I don't know.
All I know is that it's getting harder and harder to spot the real imbalances on this forum because lately sort of everything from MG, gren, scout cars and PaKs have been called underpowered and imbalanced. Even the dreaded Tiger Ace got that label at least once.
I'm sorry, but I think there's overall too much whining about the OH. I can't blame Relic if they don't take much notice of this particular concern about the shock troops.
All I know is that it's getting harder and harder to spot the real imbalances on this forum because lately sort of everything from MG, gren, scout cars and PaKs have been called underpowered and imbalanced. Even the dreaded Tiger Ace got that label at least once.
I'm sorry, but I think there's overall too much whining about the OH. I can't blame Relic if they don't take much notice of this particular concern about the shock troops.
'There's honour in victory, honour in defeat and honour in just staying alive'.
[Quote from Wings Reel]
[Quote from Wings Reel]
6 Jan 2014, 14:33 PM
#233
Posts: 2561
yea germans should get Hanabu strafes at 0 cp to counter shocks. seriously though, shocks NEEDS to be changed. i dont see how anyone can think this is balanced right now.
I haven't seen a single person say that it shouldn't. It's not as if the developers are ignoring it, there just hasn't been a patch yet because of the holiday break. Nothing we can really do other then be patient and wait for the next patch.
6 Jan 2014, 14:43 PM
#234
Posts: 747
I haven't seen a single person say that it shouldn't. It's not as if the developers are ignoring it, there just hasn't been a patch yet because of the holiday break. Nothing we can really do other then be patient and wait for the next patch.
Have I missed something? Is the demanded change to move shocks back to 2cp scheduled for the next patch?
6 Jan 2014, 15:07 PM
#235
Posts: 2561
Have I missed something? Is the demanded change to move shocks back to 2cp scheduled for the next patch?
Nothing announced no, but so far the balance team has been pretty on point about the bigger issues and I'm sure that they knew there could be some problems caused be the new CP system.
6 Jan 2014, 17:56 PM
#236
4 
Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2
I need some explanation (I play soviet almost exclusively).
How come when Osteer goes assault grenadiers, I am forced to commit two conscripts or conscript and mg (280mp vs 480mp) etc... this is right in the beginning stage of the game.
But when shock is considered....
whats the exact difference here?
How come when Osteer goes assault grenadiers, I am forced to commit two conscripts or conscript and mg (280mp vs 480mp) etc... this is right in the beginning stage of the game.
But when shock is considered....
whats the exact difference here?
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6 Jan 2014, 18:09 PM
#237
Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1
I need some explanation (I play soviet almost exclusively).
How come when Osteer goes assault grenadiers, I am forced to commit two conscripts or conscript and mg (280mp vs 480mp) etc... this is right in the beginning stage of the game.
But when shock is considered....
whats the exact difference here?
You are not required to counter Agrens with multiple units, you can counter it with one (single mg, sniper, penal). The point here is because your opponent has changed his style it probably behooves you to do likewise.
Shocks are different they require multiple units to stop a single group, are hard counters to all T1 (except sniper) and very good against all T2 (even HT before upgrade) making them truly an elite unit. Getting it out almost as soon as game starts is not fair. Agrens are a strategy changer, they have many early counters. Shocks really do not.
6 Jan 2014, 18:10 PM
#238
Posts: 1468 | Subs: 4
I need some explanation (I play soviet almost exclusively).
How come when Osteer goes assault grenadiers, I am forced to commit two conscripts or conscript and mg (280mp vs 480mp) etc... this is right in the beginning stage of the game.
But when shock is considered....
whats the exact difference here?
Shocks have smoke grenades which help them counter HMG42s, and they're much harder to kill than AGrens (2.25 armor compared to 1.5) - Grenadiers without LMGs stand zero chance, and even with LMGs they're not great against Shocks. They scale into the late game much better than AGrens. Cons can get molotovs which can really help you out vs AGrens and you have easier access to vehicles (Flamer M3s demolish AGrens especially if they're not supported by Grens, quicker "elite" infantry (Guards/Shocks come sooner than PGrens unless you're completely skipping T1 as German, and even then they probably come sooner - especially if you built T1 or T2 as Soviet.
Anyways, sorry for the rambling post. The general idea is that outside of when AGrens were first introduced, AGrens can be countered a lot more easily than Shocks, they also have a lot more weaknesses (especially mid/late game) than Shocks do and AGrens don't even force you to change your build order to properly counter them, while Shocks do.
6 Jan 2014, 21:35 PM
#239
4 
Posts: 813 | Subs: 1
AGrens are a very diffrent animal as stated above. They have plenty of counters.
6 Jan 2014, 21:51 PM
#240
Posts: 915
The more I play against early shocks the less if an issue I have. You just got to figure out how to counter them, getting a sniper and keeping it alive is the best strat. I have been using this build every game lately and it has done wonders; 1 gren 1 mg (go to fuel and hold or harass a little with gren) then sniper. The sniper really scares soviet players and forces them to make a decision they probably don't want to make. They either got to forget about going shocks and get that sniper off the field or go shocks and bite the bullet. Either way getting an early supported sniper puts the OH player in the drivers seat a bit and forces a reaction from soviet.
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