Shocktroops at 1CP

Snipers can hide from the IL-2 strafing run by just camo-ing. No need to go into a bunker.

Oh hah that works. Link0 u sure? The plane doesn't reveal him if he is directly in the planes vision?

yes it works. Just yesterday i managed to survive 3 seperate IL-2 Strikes on my sniper team (günther und helmut, both heroes of this particular skirmish) just by camoing them after seeing the smoke signals (tbh the autofire bug saved my ass once, since there were targets to shoot at and i hand not put them on hold fire...)

back to topic:
at first i was really mad at the 1 cp shocks. lost 5 games in a row to early shocks /IS2 call in. now i manage it quite well and im actually quite happy once i see a triple con + shocks opening (or anything similar) cause i exactly know what to do now. both double mg and double sniper seem to work pretty well against them, yet i think mgs might be a bit easier to pull off, since theyre not bugged (unlike the sniper) and are usually quite able to survive a minor mistake in microing.
the only problem i still have with 1cp elite inf. is that it seems to push most soviet players playing on my lvl to instantly go for them instead of playing any other strat, which of course is easy to beat since its being very predictable, yet it grows really boring after 20+ matches

See, that is the problem versus Sov's...

You lost resources and power making a army to control 1 or 2 squad...

And loose by the others sov's infantry's...

Other big problem is the anti tank rifle of the russians, early in the game... When you have one flame on the piooners or put 2 rifle grenades, and they put molotov, anti tank rifle, shocks... Versus a good russian player is a broken game...

See, that is the problem versus Sov's...

You lost resources and power making a army to control 1 or 2 squad...

And loose by the others sov's infantry's...

i left out the rest of your comment cause im not able to comprehend what you were trying to say, sorry

and im not building an army or wasting resources to counter 1-2 units. i built 1 mg/sniper per shocks to a maximum of 2 of EITHER not both + a standard mg. so basically ill have 5 t1 units (2-3 grens, 1-2 mg, 1-2 snipers). im paying anything between 480-720 mp to counter up to 880 mp if he fields 2 early shocks. how is that considered wasting resources in your book?

See, that is the problem versus Sov's...

You lost resources and power making a army to control 1 or 2 squad...

And loose by the others sov's infantry's...

Other big problem is the anti tank rifle of the russians, early in the game... When you have one flame on the piooners or put 2 rifle grenades, and they put molotov, anti tank rifle, shocks... Versus a good russian player is a broken game...

Sorry, but this is no problem at all.

Can your MG42 pin other squads or only shocks?

Can snipers shoot other units or anything but shocks is immune?

You don't use resources to counter 1 or 2 squads, you use them to counter a whole strategy.
If opponent is using heavy infantry strat that uses expensive squads as its base its rather obvious that units excelling at AI and AI control is what you need to go for.

Its called adaptation.

And your 'other big problem' is also called adaptation. If soviet went for guards, why did you respond with light vehicles? And german T1 is all that is needed to hardcounter shocks.

The shocks are so good armor, 1 match right now, only 1 shock survive a big fight versus 1 tiger and make run to base, and pass in the front of 4 panzersgrens with sturm assault rifle firing in it and they dont die!!!

Well, i see is a good strategy mg+sniper but sniper is soo weak, for 360 i go with panzers, love the sgt44... My best shock's counter is the PZ4! That god mod troop dont care "little" bullets...

The problem with shocks is not their armour, they're designed to be the best infantry in the game and their armour is part of that dynamic. The problem with shocks and guards is they hit the field too early.

The problem is that the whole soviet metagame has devolved into spamming Shocks with that commander that gives KV8 later. They basically go Shockspam into KV8 spam and balanceissues aside it is extremely boring.

"Hey man, let's play some coh2, it's been weeks they've probably patched the cons back to 2cps by now"

NOPE.

Next sov commander will deliver shock's free for 1 cent, running artillery with bikes, sniper's with shock's in a car and more armor to the IS's... And will cost 10,00.

Shocks at 1CP aren't a problem. You need to adjust your builds and strategies and simply adapt.
Guards are different story though.

The problem is that the whole soviet metagame has devolved into spamming Shocks with that commander that gives KV8 later. They basically go Shockspam into KV8 spam and balanceissues aside it is extremely boring.

What is spam? More then two units? 1500 MP in Shocks OMG. For the price, you can have all army include Adolf with chainsword in powerarmour. You use word "spam" as a magic.

1CP Shockt Troops are early. I need only build 3 CON + T2 and they com. 2CP is better.

Shocks at 1CP aren't a problem. You need to adjust your builds and strategies and simply adapt.
Guards are different story though.

Sure they can be dealt with. Still, it's a huge advantage to have such a powerful AI unit so early in the game.

I don't like the whole concept of having acces to superunits so early in to the game because I think it's a bad gamplay mechanic that unnecessarily speeds up the tech race.
Along with moving Guards/Shocks to 2cp I would gladly move t-34/85 to 9 cp, Tiger/IS-2/ISU-152/Elepfant to 12cp.

Along with moving Guards/Shocks to 2cp I would gladly move t-34/85 to 9 cp, Tiger/IS-2/ISU-152/Elepfant to 12cp.

Hmmm, then every game will be about Su-85 versus Panther, if you dont delay non-doctrinal tanks also.

Sure they can be dealt with. Still, it's a huge advantage to have such a powerful AI unit so early in the game.

I don't like the whole concept of having acces to superunits so early in to the game because I think it's a bad gamplay mechanic that unnecessarily speeds up the tech race.
Along with moving Guards/Shocks to 2cp I would gladly move t-34/85 to 9 cp, Tiger/IS-2/ISU-152/Elepfant to 12cp.

Not really. Shocks are big investment and they can be controlled very effectively by a 240 MP unit. They are after all very specific and specialised infantry which means that you can exploit it. Especially the fact that they have to close in to do the damage. Use this to set a trap.
Multiple Shocks means less other infantry on the field and vulnerability to T2 vehicles. FHT especially. You could have seen this in the recent SNF tournament.

Not really. Shocks are big investment and they can be controlled very effectively by a 240 MP unit. They are after all very specific and specialised infantry which means that you can exploit it. Especially the fact that they have to close in to do the damage. Use this to set a trap.
Multiple Shocks means less other infantry on the field and vulnerability to T2 vehicles. FHT especially. You could have seen this in the recent SNF tournament.

I usually build 3x Conscripts, Molotov, Shocktroops, I use the Cons to screen and the shocks to flank and close in on weapon teams, simple and very effective. I know it's a big advantage to have them this early because I regularly use them.

Once more, this is less about how well they can be countered but more about the immanent gamplay design.

Ciez summed it up very nicely here;

All that being said - sure Shocks can be beaten that early in the game, but I personally dislike the effect that 1 CP shocks/guards on have on the pace of the game. The past few patches have eroded the sense of "early game" that is so dear in CoH. I personally love/enjoy playing and seeing vanilla Grenadiers fighting vanilla Conscripts for the first few minutes of a game. (Don't read this as me justifying gren spam or con spam, I'm not). I love seeing the "dance" for cover and better positioning, trying to lure enemy squads into MG fire, or into bad positions. These early game engagements can really set the tone for the rest of the match, and have the potential to make matches more unique and dynamic. You can be aggressive and go for early cut-offs, you can play more defensive and try to control your own half of the map etc etc.

Elite infantry coming so early really negates this aspect of the game. Shock troops fighting vanilla grens really don't care about cover or positioning, you just right click them next to the Gren squad and watch them shred the grens to pieces. The only thing you have to really worry about is an MG42, and even then you have smoke grenades and Oorah on your Cons to flank.

So yes, they may be counter-able this early in the game, but it isn't fun to play against, it erodes the early game to being even shorter than it already was, and simplifies the game even further.

I usually build 3x Conscripts, Molotov, Shocktroops, I use the Cons to screen and the shocks to flank and close in on weapon teams, simple and very effective. I know it's a big advantage to have them this early because I regularly use them.

Once more, this is less about how well they can be countered but more about the immanent gamplay design.

Ciez summed it up very nicely here;

I haven't played a single game as a Soviet since the recent patch so I don't really know how fast you can get them but I used similar BO when we had an old CP system. I was usually building them as my 4th unit so I don't think the timing on Shocks is that much different than it was in the example you provided.

As for Ciez comment I beg to differ. I think the idea behind this change was to diversy the openings for both factions and it was quite successful in doing so. Let's be honest-standard 5 con/green opening was boring to watch.

There is a pretty big difference OZ. Shocks can hit the field in a few minutes. Or else there would be all this hubbub. As I said before they aren't that big of an issue to me but the 1cp shocks has brought up some issues that need balancing, namely OST sniper

Except the non firing bug there is absolutely nothing with ost sniper.
It shoots twice as fast at max range as soviet sniper. If you want even better sniper, pick elite troops and vet3 it for ultimate killing power.